Species Language

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

Created a design doc for Species Languages, a neat feature from SS13 that should be put on SS14

Open to any suggestions, especialy the "gibberish" parts

[Clone0401]

One really small thing, I’m not sure about the other languages, but the Dionae’s is called rootsong in paradise station which I personally like more and I think is easier to remember.

[Clone0401]

Another thing, it would be nice if there was another way to learn the languages, as I feel like salvage would keep it all to themselfs makeing is so it’s not all that useful

[Dutch-VanDerLinde]

if any being can understand galatic common, what's the point of a slime person not being able to speak slime?

since they can understand the slime, and the slime can understand galatic common, they can already communicate with eachother

[Djungelskog2]

I really like it but just a disclaimer I dont think maints want racial languages specifically

Other stuff like antags and animals should be fine though I reckon

[Reese1243]

we definately need Syndicate Codespeak! it will be really cool for covert planning in case sec get syndicate comms or something

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

One really small thing, I’m not sure about the other languages, but the Dionae’s is called rootsong in paradise station which I personally like more and I think is easier to remember.

I really liked this name! And honestly much better and unique

Another thing, it would be nice if there was another way to learn the languages, as I feel like salvage would keep it all to themselfs makeing is so it’s not all that useful

Yeah i can see the problem with this, but here is the thing: Its suppose to be unique so that not everyone knows what youre speaking. BUT, now that i think about it, it could be rare/really rare maintenance loot, so that a random passager starts speaking Voxian all of the sudden to a Vox captain, it would make for really cool RP plus some funny moments, and remove the complete need for cargo/salvage for language manuals

[ArchRBX]

Librarians having the perk of knowing every language is a very cute interaction. Would give them a responsibility as an interpreter, which is fun.

[squirrelanna]

Please add Galactic Sign Language to the list so that mute and deaf folks can finally communicate without needing to write.

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

if any being can understand galatic common, what's the point of a slime person not being able to speak slime?

since they can understand the slime, and the slime can understand galatic common, they can already communicate with eachother

Although Slimes can understand galactic common, Normal people, except Slime people and the Librarian, cant, so besides emotes and poiting, they cant communicate through open dialogue

Think of it this way: If you have a dog, they can (somewhat) understand what your saying, through proper traning of course, but you can't speak "dog", so you have to resort to what their body language is saying to see if they need anything, like pets or food. Now imagine, that trough the infinite power of the universe, you somehow understood "dog". Not speak "dog", just understand it. Their barks start sounding like actual words, like "I want to eat beef!" and similiar. Even though your dog cant speak english, and you can't speak "dog", you can understand it, which makes life easier for you as an owner and your dog.

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

Please add Galactic Sign Language to the list so that mute and deaf folks can finally communicate without needing to write.

Tricky, but i like the challange!

I'll see what i can do

[Chubbicous]

This would be the perfect opportunity for PAIs to have downloadable software to work as universal translators like in SS13 (excluding things like codespeak).

[squirrelanna]

Please add Galactic Sign Language to the list so that mute and deaf folks can finally communicate without needing to write.

Tricky, but i like the challange!

I'll see what i can do

If the challenge comes in the form of the gibberish, my idea would be to have the gibberish for folks that don't understand be emotes. For instance John Captainson gestures wildly. or John Captainson flashes a meaningful gesture.

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

Please add Galactic Sign Language to the list so that mute and deaf folks can finally communicate without needing to write.

Tricky, but i like the challange!

I'll see what i can do

If the challenge comes in the form of the gibberish, my idea would be to have the gibberish for folks that don't understand be emotes. For instance John Captainson gestures wildly. or John Captainson flashes a meaningful gesture.

Its one part of the problem, but the other is "how would i or someone add this without having to rewrite most of the muted code"

Im trying to think the path of least resistence so that it wont cause problems in the future

[EthanQix]

Honestly adding a whole language system, with "mute" and "sign" being two of them, would likely be the path of least spaghetti code.

[Everturning]

what is gloomspeak? for dwarves? otherwise, i love this proposal and it is good and great

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

what is gloomspeak? for dwarves? otherwise, i love this proposal and it is good and great

Gloomspeak is for slime people, and dwarfs and humans can only speak Galactic Common, but you can find discarted language manuals i both salvage and maintenance lockers that can teach you a languange specific to that manual!

[Clone0401]

but you can find discarted language manuals i both salvage and maintenance lockers that can teach you a languange specific to that manual!

might also be good if there was the ability to get blank language manuals that spesific spesies could make their own language manual. but it should be hard to do, which im not sure how

[Everturning]

Language books should be like super rare, or have a lot of doafters. What about making it so that after a long doafter you have a 15% chance to understand a word said in a language, and every following read adds 15% until you reach 100

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

Language books should be like super rare, or have a lot of doafters. What about making it so that after a long doafter you have a 15% chance to understand a word said in a language, and every following read adds 15% until you reach 100

The doc already specified that language books are super rare, and that it shoudnt be uncommon that you dont find a language book through the entire shift

[Kadeo64]

as much as I disagree with species language (specifically humanoid species) as I think it encourages metafriending/metagroups I do think some kind of language system needs to be added for xenonids/monkeys/other antags

if species-based languages were more accessible (IE: cargo being able to order language training books, librarian being able to slowly "teach" someone a language, science being able to use brains or something to digitize a language) then i don't think it would be as metagroupy

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

as much as I disagree with species language (specifically humanoid species) as I think it encourages metafriending/metagroups I do think some kind of language system needs to be added for xenonids/monkeys/other antags

if species-based languages were more accessible (IE: cargo being able to order language training books, librarian being able to slowly "teach" someone a language, science being able to use brains or something to digitize a language) then i don't think it would be as metagroupy

In the doc, i clearly stated that both humans and dwarfs can't speak other languanges except galactic common, antags have codespeak, and other creatures, like monkeys, kobolds, critters and slimes have their own languange

Plus, the librarian knows all languages by default, salvage can find discarted languanges books in debris and expeditions, and all crew have a rare chance to find a random language book in maintenance lockers

[Kadeo64]

In the doc, i clearly stated that both humans and dwarfs can't speak other languanges except galactic common, antags have codespeak, and other creatures, like monkeys, kobolds, critters and slimes have their own languange

I feel like you're missing my point, languages exclusive to specific player species is my concern since it can lead to metagrouping easier (if I remember correctly, this was one of the reasons diona hivemind was not implemented). And a big concern I have with player languages is how security can't really counter it if they don't have a member of that species on the security crew. They'd have to force the librarian to help, and that's not a guarantee since librarian is a boring job and may not have a player.

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

In the doc, i clearly stated that both humans and dwarfs can't speak other languanges except galactic common, antags have codespeak, and other creatures, like monkeys, kobolds, critters and slimes have their own languange

I feel like you're missing my point, languages exclusive to specific player species is my concern since it can lead to metagrouping easier (if I remember correctly, this was one of the reasons diona hivemind was not implemented). And a big concern I have with player languages is how security can't really counter it if they don't have a member of that species on the security crew. They'd have to force the librarian to help, and that's not a guarantee since librarian is a boring job and may not have a player.

If sec thinks someone is using a languange to trasmit information, they can mark them as a suspect or at worst cases, mark someone as valid to AOS

Besides, if they need someone trusted to translate a language that isnt sec, command is often pretty diverse.

As to metagrouping, i think is a fair trade for the sheer amount of more RP opportunities. And besides, if someone uses codespeak in public, its fair to say that they are marking themselfs as valid

[Kadeo64]

If sec thinks someone is using a languange to trasmit information, they can mark them as a suspect or at worst cases, mark someone as valid to AOS

this could be seen as speciesism and may cause admin headaches (ie: people misinterpreting the situation and ahelping because sec is arresting someone over using a language)

Besides, if they need someone trusted to translate a language that isnt sec, command is often pretty diverse.

fair but command isn't exactly available 24/7, they have their own departmental issues to deal with and can't monitor suspects

[EthanQix]

As an amateur linguist, I have a few comments :

• Draconic should have more whistling syllables, long ssss, since they tend to do that when they speak common.
• Gloomspeak should have very few hard K sounds. As a side note, congrats to slimefolk for being able to pronounce "*".
• Spider language should have more clicking sounds.

From a gameplay perspective :

• Humans and dwarves should have their own native language. Realistically, GCL should be a formalized hodgepodge of all sapient species' languages, not just Humanspeak. Saying GCL = Humanspeak only reinforces humans as the Default Species™.
• Making the Librarian know all languages by default, and thus giving them a gameplay role as a translator, is a stroke of genius. Good job.

[Kadeo64]

• Making the Librarian know all languages by default, and thus giving them a gameplay role as a translator, is a stroke of genius. Good job.

it's ss13 parity, curator (librarian under a different name) on most ss13 servers has full language knowledge (including xenomorph and space dragon language)

[Everturning]

I think humans ARE supposed to be the base, but dwarves should have their own language where they speak fully in Scottish gibberish that would feature lots of common scottish sounds but no real words (would look smth like "aelwyrgee bahglach doqe, oisoider meadsellgenei, Maysei?")

[Kadeo64]

I think humans ARE supposed to be the base

even with humans being the base I still think they deserve their own unique language. something like "terran" cause earth

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

If sec thinks someone is using a languange to trasmit information, they can mark them as a suspect or at worst cases, mark someone as valid to AOS

this could be seen as speciesism and may cause admin headaches (ie: people misinterpreting the situation and ahelping because sec is arresting someone over using a language)

Yeah my fault for not saying that corectly, i meant the specific kind of information that would be compromising ("Captain gave AA to HoP, lets kidnap him", for example)

But i mean, people already say stuff like this on written papers or whispering while serving their time in sec to someone on the outside over the reinforced glass tiles, that can be quickly shut off with the blastdoors that most stations have

Speaking in a different language is just another alternative to achieve the same thing, albeit more louder and depending if they know the language or not

[TheBrazilianGuy0]

As an amateur linguist, I have a few comments :

* Draconic should have more whistling syllables, long ssss, since they tend to do that when they speak common.

* Gloomspeak should have very few hard K sounds. As a side note, congrats to slimefolk for being able to pronounce "*".

* Spider language should have more clicking sounds.

I'll check out some examples and try to recreate them, but if you can help me, i'll gladly accept it. Having trouble creating all the gibberish

From a gameplay perspective :

* Humans and dwarves should have their own native language. Realistically, GCL should be a formalized hodgepodge of all sapient species' languages, not just Humanspeak. Saying GCL = Humanspeak only reinforces humans as the Default Species™.

I dont know. Galactic Common is already a pretty neutral title, and almost all ss13 servers use this name

* Making the Librarian know all languages by default, and thus giving them a gameplay role as a translator, is a stroke of genius. Good job.

Someone already said it here, but the curator is basically SS13 version of the Librarian, so not my original idea lol :trollface:

[dffdff2423]

I am also fairly against the concept of humanoid languages because for the previous reasons about metafriending and because ss14 is at it's core a RP game and I think intentionally excluding people from the conversation is not really the best design for it. The main use case I can see for languages is insulting people without them being able to understand you- which is quite funny and I am all for. Languages can also provide a bit of character to species, but no more then what can already be done via custom emotes. I personally strongly think that the downsides of humanoid languages outweigh the upsides.

I do think the animal languages are nice and giving slime people the ability to understand slime might be nice species feature. In addition, the librarian knowing every language is a nice touch.

That being said if you are going to go along with Humanoid languages I have the following suggestions:

• Galatic sign language should not be given to mimes. It kind of invalidates the entire point of the role.
• Humans and Dwarves should get their own languages as said previously. There is no way galtaic common could be any one species's native language just due to all of the differing biology. It would likely be impossible for a moth person to speak human for instance.

[Kadeo64]

and yeah about the "RP" options, I don't honestly see any RP options that aren't insulting someone who can't speak your language or playing as a foreigner who cannot speak galactic common

(and, while the foreigner gimmick would be funny the first time, it would get old real fast)

[EthanQix]

From a gameplay perspective :

* Humans and dwarves should have their own native language. Realistically, GCL should be a formalized hodgepodge of all sapient species' languages, not just Humanspeak. Saying GCL = Humanspeak only reinforces humans as the Default Species™.

I dont know. Galactic Common is already a pretty neutral title, and almost all ss13 servers use this name

I mean that Humanspeak should be distinct from Galactic Common Language. In a galaxy with half a dozen sapient species, humans aren't the Default Species™. GCL is supposed to be neutral but Humanspeak isn't.

Someone already said it here, but the curator is basically SS13 version of the Librarian, so not my original idea lol :trollface:

I didn't know that. Still a good idea ^^

[DandiIion]

I think intentionally excluding people from the conversation is not really the best design for ss14.

Could often lead to metafriending

Could be misused for crime etc

All these things already happen with just about every other form of communication be it paper, walkie-talkies, department radios etc its inevitable and also its not metafriending to make a friend with someone similar to you that's just regular-friending. Not a fair reason to veto imo.

[LankLTE]

As said in #301 , we do not wish to have roundstart species languages in Wizden. I'll be closing this one as well, though if you wish to rework the document into solely one about languages for things like animals, xenos, etc. than let me know and I would be happy to reopen it.