Bed rest is more effective than tricordrazine on single damage types

QuietlyWhisper commented 6 months ago

Description

Seems underpowered to the point of being silly for a somewhat chemically expensive medicine that only works at a specific range.

for reference in gameplay it's something like 0.1 for bed rest on a medical bed (for the types it heals) 0.03 for a single brute type damage (I'm sure these aren't the actual numbers but someone could go check the actual values)

for whatever reason the chemical guidebook is also misleading, because the 1 healing on brute, like other damage types, seems to divide between the three categories, regardless if there's damage there or not.

Even when mixed with other chemicals as a booster, it's hardly worth even doing just that considering the cost, since it really doesn't heal much at all-

IProduceWidgets commented 6 months ago

Maybe it could be changed to over-produce like the space lube does. I like the idea that its a sort of bad, but cure-all med. Just needs to be less expensive imo. Its like handing out ibuprofen pills.

RadioAndrea commented 6 months ago

Background research

Since almost all the drugs are originally cribbed from trek, I thought I would give some context on how they're handled in that universe:

Cordrazine
- Resus stimulant
- most similar to how inaprovaline is used now
- easy to overdose on
- standard dose is 1 to 2u
Tricordrazine
- Stonger cordrazine
- super-resus med
- 25u kills hardy races
Inaprovaline
- general panacea
- mostly used to fix
- toxins
- electrical damage
- emotional damage
- prevents vomiting
- not very good at resus
Trianoline (not in SS14)
- heals "percussive injuries" AKA brute

In many SS13 versions, tricordrazine heals 1 toxin and does a 0.5 smattering of other things

Applications

Thoughts on how to apply this to SS14:

Inaprovoline
- New multidrug
- Steal current tricor stats: 0.66 Heat/Shock/Cold, 2 Brute, 1 Poison, per u
- Can't vomit with drug in patient
Tricordrazine
- heal 10 asphyxiation and slow bleeding, deal 1 Poison below 25u and 5 above
- exceptionally should work on fresh dead, reviving patient to crit for some number of seconds according to dosage + RNG
- allows med to use chems on the dead, for a price
- some chance to gain tricor resistance trait on every metabolism, making it useless to prevent excessive medical necromancy
- should revive crit patients to awake for some number of seconds according to dosage+rng, maybe stun so patient can't stand back up and immediately fight
- allows paramed to dose a customer so they don't keep taking asphyx damage on the ride back to med
Trianoline
- could be added to fix low healing complaint
- better kelotane, tier 3 drug
- 2 Heat/Shock/Cold, 4 Brute

This comment has been edited for formatting, to fit your screen

hord-brayden commented 6 months ago

Background research

Since almost all the drugs are originally cribbed from trek, I thought I would give some context on how they're handled in that universe:

Cordrazine

Resus stimulant

most similar to how inaprovaline is used now

easy to overdose on

standard dose is 1 to 2u

Tricordrazine

Stonger cordrazine

super-resus med

25u kills hardy races

Inaprovaline

general panacea

mostly used to fix

toxins

electrical damage

emotional damage

prevents vomiting

not very good at resus

Trianoline (not in SS14)

heals "percussive injuries" AKA brute

In many SS13 versions, tricordrazine heals 1 toxin and does a 0.5 smattering of other things

Applications

Thoughts on how to apply this to SS14:

Inaprovoline

New multidrug

Steal current tricor stats: 0.66 Heat/Shock/Cold, 2 Brute, 1 Poison, per u

Can't vomit with drug in patient

Tricordrazine

heal 10 asphyxiation and slow bleeding, deal 1 Poison below 25u and 5 above

exceptionally should work on fresh dead, reviving patient to crit for some number of seconds according to dosage + RNG

allows med to use chems on the dead, for a price

some chance to gain tricor resistance trait on every metabolism, making it useless to prevent excessive medical necromancy

should revive crit patients to awake for some number of seconds according to dosage+rng, maybe stun so patient can't stand back up and immediately fight

allows paramed to dose a customer so they don't keep taking asphyx damage on the ride back to med

Trianoline

could be added to fix low healing complaint

better kelotane, tier 3 drug

2 Heat/Shock/Cold, 4 Brute

This comment has been edited for formatting, to fit your screen

I like the overall idea, personally. My only suggestion would be to just make a new set of meds to accomplish this - fundamentally changing something as commonplace as trico and inapro with potentially deadly consequences, would suck for returning players. Romeral and ambuzol is still fuzzy for me being swapped around 2-3 times now. Or just go the way of phalanxamine and trash it, replace it with something else with a unique name.

liltenhead commented 6 months ago

Worth mentioning that med bots have unlimited trico, and that helps even out the cost and effectiveness.

RadioAndrea commented 6 months ago

I like the overall idea, personally. My only suggestion would be to just make a new set of meds to accomplish this - fundamentally changing something as commonplace as trico and inapro with potentially deadly consequences, would suck for returning players. Romeral and ambuzol is still fuzzy for me being swapped around 2-3 times now. Or just go the way of phalanxamine and trash it, replace it with something else with a unique name.

The whole time I was writing that I thought: someone will die of muscle memory.

I think you're right, but new drugs might be better off with a full drug re-work.

Is there something like that in the medical rework plan already?

QuietlyWhisper commented 6 months ago

We actually found out that this balance issue is actually deeper relating to reagent code issues;

reagents effects are not properly scaling with reagent metabolize rate
Reagents will try to heal damage that doesnt exist, which reduces overall healing on one type because it tries to split between all damage types in the group
Reagents will always use the last metabolizing rate of the reagent, according to the organ
- I.e the heart metabolizes medicine, poison, narcotics, and will always take the metabolism rate of the last defined reagent tag on the organ, which for iron for example, is poison

thebadman4662 commented 6 months ago

So what you are saying is iron/copper is getting fixed soon and will work 5 times faster?

K-Dynamic commented 6 months ago

Trico for its weakness and health limit doesn't have OD (outside of increased thirst) and is wide-spec

My problem I guess is the recipe cost and low effectiveness of course - maybe make it so it metabolises quickly (along with corresponding healing stat changes)

Also most patients don't give into sleep meta (yet)

thebadman4662 commented 6 months ago

Also most patients don't give into sleep meta (yet)

Thats why we need some kind of gigachloral hydrate so we can sleep the bastards if we are not going to cryopod them.

Maybe even option for medibots/something else to send custom messages periodically, that way they could advise people to sleep after a brawl, spacewalk or getting poisoned.

K-Dynamic commented 6 months ago

Thats why we need some kind of gigachloral hydrate so we can sleep the bastards if we are not going to cryopod them.

Emag a medibot and bring it into med :trollface: Open NO2 canister :trollface: Tranq bullet your patients :trollface:

PR tooltip to remind players to sleep to heal (not based)

space-wizards / space-station-14