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space-wizards / space-station-14

A multiplayer game about paranoia and chaos on a space station. Remake of the cult-classic Space Station 13.
https://spacestation14.io
MIT License
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Zombies are affected by IdentityBlocker #9929

Closed Myctai closed 2 years ago

Myctai commented 2 years ago

Description

Zombies are affected by IdentityBlocker. Not sure how plausible it's for zombie to hide gait and such, but it introduces severe gameplay issue - other zombies are more likely to friendlyfire claw you.

Reproduction

Screenshots zombie_nukie

Additional context Perhaps make zombies simply not friendlyfire? Something-something "You recoil from X, they smell like zombie!"?

mirrorcult commented 2 years ago

this is intended and is easily revealed by just seeing them use the claw or speak

EmoGarbage404 commented 2 years ago

Realistically zombies would have a system for instantly identifying other zombies. But tbh it doesnt matter too much. I can decrease the friendly fire damage

Myctai commented 2 years ago

But tbh it doesnt matter too much.

I'd say that this bit, identification of brain-hungry friendlies, is extremely important. I lost count of times I got severely damaged or critted by other zombies as zombie.

Myctai commented 2 years ago

"Zombified" is expected by many players: zombified_IS_expected

EmoGarbage404 commented 2 years ago

Closing this, as this is not only intended, adds extra coordination, is easily solved by speaking, and is also mostly negated as zombies have reduced damage against other zombies.

Myctai commented 2 years ago

adds extra coordination

When it's merely "Grr!" produced by "hit t twice, Enter" whenever some dork starts clawing you, I'd not say it adds much to experience. Most of time I get teamkilled it's painfully obvious that I am zombie: I have flies, I claw at airlock, I go "Brains..." whenever there's nearby friendlyfiring zombie. Yet I still get teamkilled. All the time! Even with zombie vs zombie damage output reduction!

Not fan of this.

mirrorcult commented 2 years ago

if they're teamkilling you despite 500 obvious signs that you're a zombie then your name having 'zombified' in it isnt going to stop them either

Myctai commented 2 years ago

Does nigh guaranteed chance of friendlyfire wide attack hitting you as you and your friends break down airlock (unless you step away as single zombie finishes said airlock) add much to experience? Are there good reasons for zombies to friendly claw other zombies?

EmoGarbage404 commented 2 years ago

Damn, you're right. Uncoordinated players sloppily working together produces unfavorable results. How could i be such a fool. I'll just go make zombies do 0 damage to each other, no! I'll make them heal each other! I'm also going to make nukies be unable to cause harm to each other and make all syndies begin round start with a list of all other syndies and their objectives (balanced so that none of them conflict, or course)

The simple fact is that zombies are going to always hurt each other. That's the human element. If i didn't want that, zombies would be AI. Ultimately it comes down to the players to play the game and ultimately work together. Zombies are inherently worse than players, being slower, weaker to fire and burn, unable to use tools, and unable to even speak coherently.

And yet, every round with zombies, despite this supposed endless teamkilling, zombies manage to annihilate station crew every single time. Its almost like they are quite strong and a few friendly kills in the scuffle doesn't ruin their balance. If you get teamkilled by zombies, ahelp it. Beyond that, there's not much more i can do without dumbing down an already simple system. Play left 4 dead if you want to not hurt each other.

Myctai commented 2 years ago

Kinda odd to make point on coordination yet deny zombies proper communication. And Left 4 Dead game design is bad because?..

moonheart08 commented 2 years ago

Zombies are literally fucking zombies

they don't have a working brain and don't give a shit about anything except murder

it's kinda expected they'd hit each-other on accident dontchathink?

This is a rather overpowered team-based antag already, and Emo is correct here design wise. Zombies are innately lesser to actual players in every way, including coordination.

moonheart08 commented 2 years ago

Kinda odd to make point on coordination yet deny zombies proper communication. And Left 4 Dead game design is bad because?..

Left 4 Dead isn't SS14, it has it's own balance and design considerations that do not align with ours.

You can't just copy-paste a design from one game to another and expect it to work, that's not how game design works.