new quest : asking for accessibility of disable parking_space

[ViolaineDo]

I would like to ask if a specific parking_space=disabled is wheelchair accessible. So query with parking_space=disabled and ask if wheelchair accessible (wheelchair=yes/no/limited). It is not always the case so would be good to know precisely if those parking space are really accessible. I don't have statistics that would say it is not a spam... Feedbacks welcome .. cc @smortex

PROPOSAL QUEST (UPDATE)

General

Affected tag(s) to be modified/added: wheelchair Question asked: Is this parking space accessible to wheelchair? Answers :

• yes : parking place is fully accessible
• no : parking place is not accessible at all
• limited : parking place is partially accessible, one might need assistance to reach the sidewalk (there is a step less than 7cm or incline of the way is too steep)

  Checklist

  Checklist for quest suggestions (see guidelines):

• [x] 🚧 To be added tag is established and has a useful purpose
• [x] 🤔 Any answer the user can give must have an equivalent tagging (Quest should not reappear to other users when solved by one)
• [x] 🐿️ Easily answerable by everyone from the outside but a survey is necessary
• [x] 💤 Not an overwhelming percentage of elements have the same answer (No spam)
• [x] 🕓 Applies to a reasonable number of elements (Worth the effort)

Ideas for implementation

Element selection: parking_space=disabled and !wheelchair

Proposed GUI: Yes/No/Partially selection answer option. Add information on the window when the user click on the "Can't say" button...?

[ENT8R]

Why didn't you fill out the quest suggestion issue template?

[ViolaineDo]

@ENT8R Sorry I wasn't sure if that ws needed at this stage...

[ENT8R]

🕓 Applies to a reasonable number of elements (Worth the effort)

According to Taginfo there are about 10.000 elements tagged with parking_space=disabled. 3500 of them already have a wheelchai=* value, so this quest would only apply to about 6500 elements, which is a pretty small amount...

[rugk]

So a better quest may be to ask for parking_space=disabled first (add it to parking spaces), but AFAIK this has been rejected in https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1106. Oh wait… that issue lists another tag: capacity:disabled.

So actually parking_space=disabled only is about dedicated (and separately mapped) parking spaces, as it seems. :thinking: Would it make sense for capacity:disabled >= 1, too?

[ViolaineDo]

So actually parking_space=disabled only is about dedicated (and separately mapped) parking spaces, as it seems. thinking Would it make sense for capacity:disabled >= 1, too?

From my point of view, it makes sense to qualify accessibility of a whole parking where there is parking spaces for disabled, yes ;) But then the issue would be the quests forms : saying limited for a parking_space or a whole parking doesn't imply the same things. A parking could be inside of a building, and then accessibility would mean accessibility of the parking in the building (doors, lifts, etc). For parking space accessibility we just want to know is there is an incline and that you can get into your car easilly. So finally I think it is not ok to input data with capacity:disabled into this quest..

[westnordost]

Do you have some examples (photos) of any parking spaces reserved for disabled that are not wheelchair accessible? That sounds a bit like a contradiction.

[DeusFigendi]

Do you have some examples (photos) of any parking spaces reserved for disabled that are not wheelchair accessible? That sounds a bit like a contradiction.

The sign for this parking space shows a wheelchair but they ain't dedicated for wheelies only but also for other handicaps, for example bad-footed folks which still walk or blind people. So probably such parking space could exist.

[westnordost]

I am not convinced.

Any parking can be accessed on wheels, otherwise cars wouldn't be able to access it.

And cases where the whole parking is surrounded by a kerb, it wouldn't matter much, because the person in a wheelchair will need help in any case - already when exiting the car. Even in a public transport bus, someone needs to at least open the ramp. Thus, the information whether there is a lowered kerb at or near the disabled parking space is pretty irrelevant.

[ViolaineDo]

Sorry I couldn't take a picture yet, so my point is that in some case people who build the disabled parking space are doing it badly, for example the width is not enough or the ground can not be accessed on wheels. It's not logical because when you build a disabled parking space, you would think one would consider it, but it is not always the case. It is usually errors where people are not competent or nature got the upper end. In some cases there is a tree nearby which roots stopped accessibility. In that case at the beginning the parking space was accessible but now it is not anymore.. Hope I am clear enough... thks for your support

[alesarrett]

I am not convinced.

Any parking can be accessed on wheels, otherwise cars wouldn't be able to access it.

And cases where the whole parking is surrounded by a kerb, it wouldn't matter much, because the person in a wheelchair will need help in any case - already when exiting the car. Even in a public transport bus, someone needs to at least open the ramp. Thus, the information whether there is a lowered kerb at or near the disabled parking space is pretty irrelevant.

I think you are wrong in this. Some healthy people in a wheelchair can guide a car, and are able to autonomously exit the car and use his/her wheelchair, but if they don't have around a lowered kerb, they are in trouble in accessing the places they would like to reach. And, also in cases when there are other people accompanying a person in a wheelchair, they need a lowered kerb to take them somewhere else... So the quest makes a lot of sense, and I'm in contact with a guy using a wheelchair who is exactly willing to use StreetComplete to add accessibility information also to parking_spaces for disabled persons.
Here two examples, one for accessible, the other for non accessible parking_space=disabled:

• accessible parking space: https://www.google.it/maps/@45.4286888,11.791639,3a,75y,81.05h,76.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp18e4kV5Sfor7mPAlKdnRA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu
• not accessible parking space: https://www.google.it/maps/@44.1465305,4.8082675,3a,66.4y,259.6h,68.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shSzjs6i_w6v-DhLj4_2ZMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu

The attention to parking spaces for disabled people is increasing, and now there are almost 200.000 elements tagged with parking_space=disabled (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/parking_space=disabled#combinations). I think this quest would be worth to be considered in StreetComplete. Please let me know if more information supporting this is needed or how can I help in better explain it. Thanks

[mnalis]

So the quest makes a lot of sense, and I'm in contact with a guy using a wheelchair who is exactly willing to use StreetComplete to add accessibility information also to parking_spaces for disabled persons.

That is great! My suggestion for him at the moment would be to either:

• leave a note with comment and picture (by long-pressing on the map location and choosing Create new note (so then they or you or anybody else can add appropriate tags later to the map when they get home). Another advantage of Notes is that they can be used not only to improve the OSM map, but also to complain to municipality (or parking owner or whoever) to actually fix the problem and make the place wheelchair accessible!

• alternatively, if they are power user and know OSM tags by name, they can use SCEE (StreetComplete "Expert Edition" fork), enable "expert mode" in settings, and then on parking quest choose Other Answers, and select Show/edit tags to add wheelchair=limited (or wheelchair=no) as well as other important tags (like wheelchair:description etc.) directly (without the need to later postprocess them)

are able to autonomously exit the car and use his/her wheelchair, but if they don't have around a lowered kerb, they are in trouble in accessing the places they would like to reach

Well, sure, but there are two problems with such idea:

• such quest seem ill-fitted for StreetComplete Quest (they would fit StreetComplete Overlay better if there was one, or MapComplete OnWheels theme ).

  That is because it seems to fail "💤 No spam" StreetComplete quest guideline. In particular, of some 196700 parking_space=disabled, only 196 worldwide are currently marked with wheelchair tag different than yes or designated (e.g. no / limited / etc.). That is less than 0.1% of the answers that would have such an unusual value -- which is why those are much better left to OSM Notes, then to wasting mapper time by asking them to answer a question over and over again which will have the same answer more than 99.9% of the time (most likely result of such spamming would be the user disabling such quests altogether, or even giving up on using StreetComplete or even OSM completely after seeing it as pointless).

• more generally, disabled people would probably be better served by accurately mapping the more details on the map (e.g. adding missing ways which are wheelchair friendly, etc) by e.g. Vespucci mobile editor, then just by e.g. adding wheelchair=limited to that parking lot. Because, just knowing that you can (somehow) reach some parking space on wheels is much less useful then if you know exactly how/where (e.g. imagine if on big parking space there is only one way a person in wheelchair can enter/exit the parking - they could spend much time searching for it while avoiding cars, and still be unsuccessful! But if that way was explicitly marked, it would help enormously)