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streetcomplete / StreetComplete

Easy to use OpenStreetMap editor for Android
https://streetcomplete.app
GNU General Public License v3.0
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New quest: leaf_type for landuse:forest #366

Closed rugk closed 5 years ago

rugk commented 7 years ago

The leaf_type quest for forests should be easy to answer and always stays the same… And one quest can cover a big area… :smiley:

matkoniecz commented 7 years ago

I intend to make this as the next step after #338

At this moment my main block is a lack of three photos that are

And three images are required

rugk commented 7 years ago

As for a "usual leaves" you could also use:

In real pictures:

As for needles:

Or just make it yourself. I could clearly also take some pictures if needed.

matkoniecz commented 7 years ago

I really like cliparts idea, that is a new idea. Some nice broadleaved, just https://openclipart.org/search/?query=pine finds some needles.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Branched_juniper_twig_with_shots.jpg would be even better - unfortunately it requires matching broadleaved on black baground

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tabak_Burley-Jupiter.JPG - I found no evidence that CC-BY-SA 3 is usable in GPL v3 project and strong indication that it is not. completely unfit due to background

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Playing_with_water,_light_and_leaves_(Fagus_sylvatica).JPG - I considered this one but once in small size it is not very readable. Also, I wanted to keep broad/needle without any spurious differences like colour (red/green)/state (dying/on tree). completely unfit due to color

matkoniecz commented 7 years ago

Thanks for clipart icons idea, this is really promising - especially with readability better than photo at low resolution. The last thing is to check whatever openclipart.org is trustworthy on topic of licenses.

EDIT: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_from_openclipart.org strongly indicates that they are OK.

And now I found also some promising reserve photos at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tree?uselang=pl#Foliage_.2F_Feuillage

westnordost commented 7 years ago

Did you see the trees/leaves in twemoji and emojione 2 icon sets?

rugk commented 7 years ago

unfortunately it requires matching broadleaved on black baground

It's easy to edit it, but could still leave some traces of a black background.

I found no evidence that CC-BY-SA 3 is usable in GPL v3 project and strong indication that it is not.

As it is media in contrast to code, I think it works. Actually CC-BY-SA is quite the "synonym" to GPLv3. Many games like 0AD or so use CC-BY-SA with a GPL license IIRC.

The last thing is to check whatever openclipart.org is trustworthy on topic of licenses.

Public domain/CC0. Look here: https://openclipart.org/share You won't find any lower criteria. (And I would not suggest images with bad licenses.)

Did you see the trees/leaves in twemoji and emojione 2 icon sets?

Why not have a general look: http://emojipedia.org/fallen-leaf/ (I also like the EmojiOne 3 version. When not using SVG they are under a free license)

And now I found also some promising reserve photos at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tree?uselang=pl#Foliage_.2F_Feuillage

:+1:

westnordost commented 7 years ago

License of EmojiOne 3 is not compatible. Only twemoji (Twitter) and EmojiOne 2 are.

rugk commented 7 years ago

Ah, right, because of -NC… Okay, but v2 is not bad either…

rugk commented 7 years ago

Any news? Is it really so hard to decide on two pictures?

matkoniecz commented 7 years ago

@rugk No, it is because it is a hobby project and as far as StreetComplete goes I was busy with making my own map style for use in StreetComplete what turned out to require for example https://github.com/tilezen/vector-datasource/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Amatkoniecz+is%3Aclosed

westnordost commented 7 years ago

Cool

rugk commented 7 years ago

Oh, cool. :+1: So you are working on https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/183. (Always a good idea to leave a note in the issue thee, so no one else starts working in the meantime…)

PanderMusubi commented 7 years ago

Good collection of SVG icons is https://github.com/Xaviju/inkscape-open-symbols

Values to offer in case of natural=tree are:

Improved icon and picture suggestions:

Note that leaf_type=mixed does not apply to trees and is only used in combination with landuse=* and natural=scrub and barrier=hedge. Please, support the latter two as well. Note mixed should not be offered for natural=tree.

Also leaf_type=leafless for cacti is not used on natural=tree, as these plants are tree-like, but not trees and only used in landuse=*. There, use as icon and picture:

Do not process natural=tree_row as the individual trees in the row can differ. Process only the nodes of natural=tree_row. Only when all nodes are tagged for leaf_cycle, natural=tree_row can automatically get a value which may include leaf_type=mixed. Per haps this is something for a bot?

Sometimes, trees are dead and have no leaves for the user to identify them. Any suggestions what to do with that? A tree can have an end date, but the moment of survey is not the date to use there.

In summary, after checking all with taginfo only allowed options (next to: don't know/unknown/not filled out/not set):

leaf_type= broadleaved needleleaved mixed leafless
natural=tree + + - -
natural=tree_row + + + -
natural=wood + + + -
landuse=forest + + + -
natural=scrub + + + +
barrier=hedge + + + +

All other landuse, natural, barrier, et cetera do not need to be queried.

PanderMusubi commented 7 years ago

(done updating the post above)

PanderMusubi commented 7 years ago

Perhaps note the user that a single pine tree in a huge forest doesn't make the forest mixed.

westnordost commented 7 years ago

The general problem I see with tagging forests via survey is that it is usually a large area.

  1. The user cannot be expected to check out every corner of this forest if it is i.e. broadleaved everywhere. Thus, the quality of the data entered by the user is quite low. (i.e. it may very well be wrong)
  2. It is likely that the forest polygon needs to be split up to accurately map the situation. But this app can't do that.
  3. This is information that can be more accurately mapped looking at high-quality satellite images
PanderMusubi commented 7 years ago

Okay, agree to omit natural=wood and landuse=forest from this query.

rugk commented 7 years ago

So only https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/83? I would be fine with that.

PanderMusubi commented 7 years ago

no, forget that one for now. the table in this post is what is relevant, minus the two omissions

PanderMusubi commented 7 years ago

so only

leaf_type= broadleaved needleleaved mixed leafless
natural=tree + + - -
natural=scrub + + + +
barrier=hedge + + + +
PanderMusubi commented 7 years ago

I removed also tree_row, as that can be calculated from the trees making the row. Some tree rows are very very long, so not practical to do in a survey with StreetComplete

matkoniecz commented 7 years ago

I removed also tree_row, as that can be calculated from the trees making the row.

IIRC you map either individual trees or natural=tree_row line.

matkoniecz commented 7 years ago

The general problem I see with tagging forests via survey is that it is usually a large area.

I thought that SC would be useful for mapping tiny areas that are easy to survey, hard to map tree type from aerial images and likely to not require splitting.

Is it possible in overpass to get areas below for example 1 square kilometer?

PanderMusubi commented 6 years ago

What is needed to move this issue forward?

westnordost commented 6 years ago

@matkoniecz Not sure, but it would be possible to calculate and filter that after download in Java code.

@PanderMusubi Someone willing to implement it

matkoniecz commented 5 years ago

natural=scrub and barrier=hedge

Note the title of this issue. I am making second attempt at the PR that will support also natural=wood as obvious synonym of landuse=forest, but will not support natural=scrub and barrier=hedge. Primary reason is that separate translations are needed and that for tree covered area answering this quest is much more useful, as there is already some use of this tag.

For hedges it seems to be as useful as backrest quest for benches.

Feel free to create a separate issue for that, especially once this one will be closed.

I am planning to use https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Juniper_needles.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leaf_of_common_tilia.jpg

Changed to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Whitebark_pine_Pinus_albicaulis_needle_clusters.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Populus_tremuloides_(5002308731).jpg as cropping to square images is required

In case of supporting leaftype=palm: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/2007-02-28(57)_Palm_leaf,_Palmblatt.JPG

In case of supporting leafless: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Saguaro_jul04_38.jpg

With https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nadelnfichtenrp.jpg and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Populus_tremuloides_(5002308731).jpg as backup.

Other alternatives: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Quercus_robur.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lisc_lipy.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abies_grandis_5359.JPG

Needle backup: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Norway_Spruce_needle_stomata.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pinus_flexilis_2.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:White_fir_new_needles_(4740404721).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abies_concolor_8065.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pinus_flexilis_3.jpg

Did you see the trees/leaves in twemoji and emojione 2 icon sets?

Yes, but tree shape may not match leaf type and I see no icons in emojione for broad-leaved/needles distinction.

https://emojipedia.org/twitter/ has long list (better list is welcomed!), maybe I missed something but situation seems the same.

for a potential future search:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=Fir%20needles&license=4%2C5%2C9%2C10 https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=commons&project=wikimedia&depth=10000&categories=White%20background%0D%0ALeaves%20in%20summer&ns%5B0%5D=1&ns%5B6%5D=1&search_max_results=500&add_image=on&interface_language=en&&doit=

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Leaves_on_white_background https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Conifer_leaves https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Abies https://duckduckgo.com/?q=needles+site%3Acommons.wikimedia.org&t=canonical&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F2%2F23%2FWhitebark_pine_Pinus_albicaulis_needle_clusters.jpg%2F1098px-Whitebark_pine_Pinus_albicaulis_needle_clusters.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Abies_%C3%97_arnoldiana https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Pinus_sylvestris_foliage