Bike Parking: Floor Markings

[grafst]

Use case Some of the Bicycle Parkings in my City are just markings on the ground, like this: There is currently no such option in streetcomplete.

Proposed Solution

I think it would be tagged as bicycle_parking=floor

I could make a PR if this something desired.

[westnordost]

You are sure that this isn't a parking space for bike rental instead?

Only rental bikes park there. Is it illegal to park your car wherever (it isn't in the way) in Switzerland?

[grafst]

It is just an example picture i grabbed from google. I can take a real one later.

[matkoniecz]

Is such type really common? From what I remember it was one of rare parking types when I implemented it but maybe it is getting more common

[mnalis]

Taginfo says it is only used 0.46% as the bicycle parking type worldwide (although that is more than 2000 uses).

There is always an option of leaving a note in Other answers / Can't say if it is one of less popular values.

I can take a real one later.

That would be good in any case @grafst , as the picture on the wiki also seems to be of rental bike parking unless I'm mistaken.

[westnordost]

Alright, I would say that the kind of bike parking is rare enough that if one encounters such a bike parking, one can just leave a note instead. Adding a proper picture to the wiki would be really helpful in any case.

[BalooUriza]

I know of several marked bicycle parking spaces including at least two that are explicitly reserved for the physically disabled.

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023, 09:31 Mateusz Konieczny @.***> wrote:

Is such type really common? From what I remember it was one of rare parking types when I implemented it but maybe it is getting more common

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[mnalis]

I know of several marked bicycle parking spaces including at least two that are explicitly reserved for the physically disabled.

Could you share pictures, @BalooUriza? I'm somewhat confused if you're talking about places reserved only for physically disabled bicycle drivers (?) or about spaces which are shared between regular bicycle parkings and parking for cars belonging for disabled persons, or something else?

[BalooUriza]

Sure thing! https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7967019159 looks like https://social.tulsa.ok.us/@BalooUriza/111247250984896076

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 6:03 PM Matija Nalis @.***> wrote:

I know of several marked bicycle parking spaces including at least two that are explicitly reserved for the physically disabled.

Could you share pictures, @BalooUriza https://github.com/BalooUriza? I'm somewhat confused if you're talking about places reserved only for physically disabled bicycle drivers (?) or about spaces which are shared between regular bicycle parkings and parking for cars belonging for disabled persons, or something else?

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/5191#issuecomment-1765401586, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAWDFBUWK3DGXFE7XPTICWDX7W4NLAVCNFSM6AAAAAA3PHKK4SVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTONRVGQYDCNJYGY . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[mnalis]

Thanks @BalooUriza, so it is for parking vehicles like those: https://www.bikeabilitywales.org.uk/wp-content/gallery/cycles-lined-up/Wheelchair-cycles.jpg and https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/88/cf/2388cf65364465de971d1b2b2222faa2.png ?

The former picture looks like cargo bicycles able to transport wheelchair user as "cargo" (i.e. requires additional able-bodied driver); but the latter one looks like wheelchair user can drive it by themselves and detach wheelchair from bike at destination (and presumably park non-wheelchair part of the vehicle at the parking space as you show in that Fediverse post)?

Do you know how would those parkings be marked in OSM? And how popular are they (most less-popular types of parking are left to "Leave note" functionality, as mentioned above in https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/5191#issuecomment-1682079898)

[westnordost]

I've seen plenty of "floor markings" bike parkings in Basel, e.g.

https://www.google.de/maps/@47.5589134,7.6007589,3a,75y,355.29h,63.58t /data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sP8SvMWy5mC7b7OBMOjfxRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i28?entry=ttu

https://www.google.de/maps/@47.5588099,7.6018259,3a,64y,189.52h,75.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT1U1UYO2wUMONcDFWmyKbQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

, apparently used by anything with two wheels. There are also these bike parking areas with some bicycle stands sprinkled in-between, so you got something like 25% of bikes parked at stands, the rest just in that area. Anyway,, seems to be a Swiss thing.

[grafst]

Here finally the promised picture:

[BalooUriza]

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 6:45 PM Matija Nalis @.***> wrote:

Thanks @BalooUriza https://github.com/BalooUriza, so it is for parking vehicles like those: https://www.bikeabilitywales.org.uk/wp-content/gallery/cycles-lined-up/Wheelchair-cycles.jpg and https://www.pinterest.com/pin/454089574899306850/?

No, anything larger than a mountain bike will not fit through the gate that goes into the cage. It's for any kind of bicycle that will fit in the cage, and is displaying a handicap parking placard.

Message ID: @.*** com>

[mnalis]

No, anything larger than a mountain bike will not fit through the gate that goes into the cage. It's for any kind of bicycle that will fit in the cage, and is displaying a handicap parking placard.

Oh, OK @BalooUriza. It seemed to me to have different type of stand (much longer?), so I though it might be for specialized bicycle types. So it is basically just a regular bicycle parking with stands reserved for less-than-100%-handicap people (who still drive regular bicycles)?

IOW in that picture of yours, parking space marked with wheelchar pictogram would be in OSM tagged as regular amenity=bicycle_parking + bicycle_parking=stands, just with additional access=private (access=permit sounds tempting, but it is only for permits that anyone can obtain).

If so, that picture can already be solved in StreetComplete, via Bicycle type quest and Bicycle access quests, right?

_(Note there exist even more detailed additional tags that might be of interest for tagging such spaces, like capacity:disabled=* and maybe private=disabled; but StreetComplete does not currently have quests for that level of detail AFAIR - I'd suggest to leave a Note instead if you're interested in detailed mapping of those; or use SCEE ("Expert Edition") fork which allows for adding any raw tags directly to the OSM)_

[BalooUriza]

Oh, OK @BalooUriza. It seemed to me to have different type of stand (much longer?), so I though it might be for specialized bicycle types.

Not nearly that well thought through. This is probably meant for accessible human powered machines as you describe, however, such machines have no physical method of getting to the space in the first place.

So it is basically just a regular bicycle parking with stands reserved for less-than-100%-handicap people (who still drive regular bicycles)?

De facto but not de jure, yes.

IOW in that picture of yours, parking space marked with wheelchar pictogram would be in OSM tagged as regular amenity=bicycle_parking + bicycle_parking=stands, just with additional access=private (access=permit sounds tempting, but it is only for permits that anyone can obtain).

That one would be effectively private at the time I took that photo; please be aware that photo and knowledge of that site is from ~2010. In addition to needing access to the cage, one would also need a disabled parking placard to use that specific space. Also I'm not convinced that was thought through either, since we are talking about Portland, and the whole reason for having a cage in the first place is because anything that isn't set in concrete will get stolen there. A parking placard taped to the handlebars would definitely disappear.

[westnordost]

Could someone make a fitting picture of such a bike parking?

The current pictures on the wiki are not that good because on one, you almost do not see the markings, on the other, you only see rental-bikes. Note that the bike parking is shown in a relatively small rectangle on the screen. So what we need would be a picture that clearly shows a a marked area for bicycles. If there are too many bicycles parked, it may obscure the bicycle marking. Just bicycles standing in a differently-paved area could be misunderstood as bicycle_parking=informal.

[westnordost]

ping

[westnordost]

ping

[mnalis]

Here finally the promised picture:

@grafst unfortunately, your picture does not seem to have any markings on the floor that would clearly indicate that those spaces are specifically intended for parking of bicycles (instead of e.g. cars or motorbikes or whatever). Do you or @BalooUriza (or someone else?) can take a pictures of such place which would:

• be clearly marked as parking for bicycles by markings on the floor
• lack any stands, wheelbenders, boxes or any other physical infrastructure for locking the bicycle to
• not being primarily intended / used for rental bikes (like picture on the wiki seems to unfortunately be).

Ideally, the picture would show no rental-branded bicycles/scooters, but a one or two regular bicycles, while still clearly showing that it only has bicycle parking markings on the floor.

(Croatia is however quite lacking in such parkings (at least I don't recall ever seeing one), so I cannot really take such picture myself.)

[westnordost]

I asked for help in the forum: https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/wanted-ein-reprasentatives-foto-fur-fahrradparkplatze-die-nur-markierungen-sind/111526

[gdabski]

I have one like this, but it lacks any parked bicycles.

[westnordost]

It's a good example picture for the wiki. But I fear on a thumbnail-sized picture, almost nothing would be discernible.