UX: Adding religious (Christian) crossings is confusing while language is set to German (things overlay)

rugk commented 7 months ago

How to Reproduce

Let's say you stand before a Christian cross and want to add this with the things overlay…

Open things overlay.
Add thing.
Search for "cross" ("kreuz" in German).

What happens: Screenshot_20240323-140904_1

The only result is the weirdly confusingly term "Kreuz ohne religiösen Wert" ("Cross without religious value"), which is… uhm… clearly wrong, in this case? (most free-standing crosses except on mountains maybe, in Germany likely have a religious value aka are Christian crosses).

As it is often found near a way, if you are clever, you search for "Weg" (way/road) and you get "Wegkreuz" ("way/road cross"?): Screenshot_20240327-181040_1

Now, is this the correct one? I am personally puzzled…

Expected Behavior

Several things:

why does not "Wegkreuz" appear when I search for "kreuz" – it should really do so?
Maybe it can be clarified how to map/what religious crosses, given the other entry explicitly states "without religious value"

Personally, I just think (and did) map a Christian cross as a "Wegkreuz", and given https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flurkreuz (which calls it "Flurkreuz" – a term, which allows you to find the Wegkreuz), I guess this is correct.

Also, I'd propose:

maybe also make it findable when searching for "Christ"/"Jesus"/"Christian" or similar…

Versions affected

57.1

matkoniecz commented 7 months ago

It seems to me like iD presets are weirdly translated in German.

Is https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10948713261 also showing in iD as "Kreuz ohne religiösen Wert" ?

If yes then problem is with iD presets and should be fixed there. Maybe https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:man_made%3Dcross is also badly translated? Compare https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man%20made=cross?uselang=en

matkoniecz commented 7 months ago

maybe also make it findable when searching for "Christ"/"Jesus"/"Christian" or similar…

Is it findable in iD editor when searching with such terms? If no and it should be then such aliases can be added by translators. See https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#id-presets

mcliquid commented 7 months ago

Here is the translation in iD presets: https://app.transifex.com/openstreetmap/presets/translate/#de/presetpot/458549053?q=text%3Across

matkoniecz commented 7 months ago

Apparently you need to opt in to translate German to see it. Is it confirmed that broken translation of iD presets is the source?

mcliquid commented 7 months ago

I'm not sure. There are two strings in English with "Cross", each with different German translations: "Kreuz" and "Kreuz ohne religiösen Wert". Obviously the second one is used. Which is "Cross without religious value".

The German Wiki explicitly states that the tag is a cross with no historical and religious background. In English, the religion is not mentioned at all. Does this mean that it is implied in English?

riQQ commented 7 months ago

Not finding 'Wegkreuz' when searching for 'kreuz' is a bug no matter what.

Maybe https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:man_made%3Dcross is also badly translated? Compare https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man%20made=cross?uselang=en

They seem to be contradictory to me. English wiki for man_made=cross also has a picture of a clearly religious wayside cross of no historic value as an example.

westnordost commented 7 months ago

Isn't the issue rather that the search dialog does not find "Wegkreuz" wenn searching for presets? (Does iD find it when entering Kreuz?)

westnordost commented 7 months ago

Looking at the osmfeatures library code, indeed the library does not do a full-text-search but a "starts with" search. I.e. the word has to start with the text typed.

However, if the preset for the wayside cross contains an alias "Kreuz" or even just a term with that name or which starts with that name, then it is probably a bug in osmfeatures library. All assuming that in iD, it works fine as-is.

rugk commented 7 months ago

Okay, so what is actionable here?

osmfeatures: make and issue or PR to change the search from "starts with" to "contains"? Or clarify why it is not found, otherwise?
OSM wiki (etc.): clarify whether "Cross without religious value" is really not-religious? And if it is not, what do we have "Wegkreuz"/wayside cross/"Flurkreuz" for, then?
ID (presets): adding "Christ"/"Jesus"/"Christian" as aliases

Do I miss sth.?

westnordost commented 7 months ago

First check how iD behaves. Does the issue exist for iD, too?

westnordost commented 7 months ago

The german translation of the preset is currently

                "historic/wayside_cross": {
                    "name": "Wegkreuz",
                    "terms": "wegkreuz,wegekreuz,flurkreuz"
                },

So, in the transifex, just "kreuz" should be added to the terms. I think that should solve the issue. The "Wegekreuz" preset will then be findable via the term.

rugk commented 7 months ago

Yeah seems ID "works" the same in German: grafik

grafik

westnordost commented 7 months ago

can't hurt to add christian etc as terms too, also for the English strings.

With that said, I will close this and trust that someone will update the German terms of the "Wegkreuz" preset :-)

rugk commented 7 months ago

Well… I would like to fix it for all languages and add "cross" there, so I am a little lost here. In https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Aopenstreetmap%2FiD%20wayside_cross&type=code I cannot find it…

Anyway, already requested to join the id translation project on transifex, which apparently needs to be approved first… :roll_eyes:

rugk commented 7 months ago

BTw if we speak about crosses, should not SC then also allow to add summit crosses? Ah I see the issue seems to be it is a modification actually: summit:cross=yes at natural=peak… (okay English wiki says in addition is okay too, so probably okay?)

rugk commented 7 months ago

They seem to be contradictory to me. English wiki for man_made=cross also has a picture of a clearly religious wayside cross of no historic value as an example.

Asked about this in OSM wiki now

westnordost commented 7 months ago

Well… I would like to fix it for all languages and add "cross" there, so I am a little lost here. In https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Aopenstreetmap%2FiD%20wayside_cross&type=code I cannot find it…

Wrong repo. It's this one https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema There is also a translate link.

matkoniecz commented 7 months ago

https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#id-presets links https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/develop/CONTRIBUTING.md#translating

is it not sufficient?

Anyway, already requested to join the id translation project on transifex, which apparently needs to be approved first… 🙄

Hopefully it will happen fast!

With that said, I will close this and trust that someone will update the German terms of the "Wegkreuz" preset :-)

And man_made=cross - German translation is simply wrong

kjonosm commented 7 months ago

With that said, I will close this and trust that someone will update the German terms of the "Wegkreuz" preset :-)

Done

mnalis commented 7 months ago

BTw if we speak about crosses, should not SC then also allow to add summit crosses? Ah I see the issue seems to be it is a modification actually: summit:cross=yes at natural=peak…

Isn't there a quest for summit cross already (if I'm understanding correctly what you want @rugk )?

streetcomplete / StreetComplete

UX: Adding religious (Christian) crossings is confusing while language is set to German (things overlay) #5557