maxspeed=<countrycode>:<zone type> in US

[cliffordsnow]

I noticed a new user adding maxspeed=US:urban. I've lived in many cities across the US, and have never seen a consistent maxspeed for anything, from residential to motorways (Interstate highways)

Can that feature be turned off for countries without established speed limits?

The changeset, https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/55834170 was by a new users that has probably never seen how streets are tagged.

[westnordost]

The user added maxspeed:type, not maxspeed.

[matkoniecz]

was by a new users that has probably never seen how streets are tagged.

In StreetComplete user is not selecting tag, app is doing this (user is answering questions that should be easy to answer using common sense and general knowledge, without knowledge about OSM tagging).

So it does not matter at all whatever user knows how maxspeed tags work in OSM.

have never seen a consistent maxspeed for anything

So tagging using by SC is not conflicting with local consensus, because it does not exists?

without established speed limits

Are you claiming that USA has no concept of speed limits? AFAIK it is not true.

[cliffordsnow]

Yes - user is just answering questions and the app created the appropriate tags. If I were to see the option for entering speed limit that says US:urban or something similar I would not accept it because it's not defined.

The US does have established speed limits as you stated, just but not documented on the wiki. (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits) For the case I referenced, maxspeed:type=US:urban is not a valid value. It should be a number. The only exception is the variable speed limit ways, which is tagged maxspeed:variable=*

To document speed limits in the US would require looking at every state, county and city.

[westnordost]

How is the fact that the value of implicit speed limits are not documented in the wiki relevant here?

Am 29. Januar 2018 00:11:21 MEZ schrieb Clifford Snow notifications@github.com:

Yes - user is just answering questions and the app created the appropriate tags. If I were to see the option for entering speed limit that says US:urban or something similar I would not accept it because it's not defined.

The US does have established speed limits as you stated, just but not documented on the wiki. (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits) For the case I referenced, maxspeed:type=US:urban is not a valid value. It should be a number. The only exception is the variable speed limit ways, which is tagged maxspeed:variable=*

To document speed limits in the US would require looking at every state, county and city.

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[westnordost]

Do you mean it should be i.e. maxspeed:type=US-NY:urban?

Am 29. Januar 2018 00:11:21 MEZ schrieb Clifford Snow notifications@github.com:

Yes - user is just answering questions and the app created the appropriate tags. If I were to see the option for entering speed limit that says US:urban or something similar I would not accept it because it's not defined.

The US does have established speed limits as you stated, just but not documented on the wiki. (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits) For the case I referenced, maxspeed:type=US:urban is not a valid value. It should be a number. The only exception is the variable speed limit ways, which is tagged maxspeed:variable=*

To document speed limits in the US would require looking at every state, county and city.

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[Carnildo]

The US does not have nationwide implicit speed limits. Some states have implicit statewide speed limits, but those aren't often well-known, and the groupings vary from state to state, and sometimes within a state.

For example, California's implicit groups are "non-highway streets in residential and business districts, school zones, and senior zones", "undivided two-lane highways", and "all other highways". Non-highway roads outside of urban areas don't appear to have an implicit speed limit other than "reasonable and prudent".

In comparison, Washington's implicit groups are "state highways", "county roads", and "city and town streets". This covers everything, but literally the only place I've seen these speed limits mentioned is in the relevant section of the state law. If you were to ask the average person what the speed limit is on a road without a speed limit sign, they couldn't tell you.

As a further complication, the city of Spokane, within Washington, has its own implicit groups: "arterials" and "all other roads". Other cities may have their own implicit speed limits, but I'm not familiar with them.

A simple "maxspeed:type=US:urban" isn't meaningful. You'd need tags such as "maxspeed:type="US-WA:county", "maxspeed:type=US-WA-Spokane:arterial", and "maxspeed:type=US-CA:undivided-highway". And given that many of these implicit speed limits are not well-known, you're better off requiring that any speed limit in the United States be entered as a number.

[westnordost]

Ok, I understand.

Though, if the implicit speed limit is not well known, how would a surveyor then be able to answer this with an explicit value?

Am 29. Januar 2018 09:57:43 MEZ schrieb Carnildo notifications@github.com:

The US does not have nationwide implicit speed limits. Some states have implicit statewide speed limits, but those aren't often well-known, and the groupings vary from state to state, and sometimes within a state.

For example, California's implicit groups are "non-highway streets in residential and business districts, school zones, and senior zones", "undivided two-lane highways", and "all other highways". Non-highway roads outside of urban areas don't appear to have an implicit speed limit other than "reasonable and prudent".

In comparison, Washington's implicit groups are "state highways", "county roads", and "city and town streets". This covers everything, but literally the only place I've seen these speed limits mentioned is in the relevant section of the state law. If you were to ask the average person what the speed limit is on a road without a speed limit sign, they couldn't tell you.

As a further complication, the city of Spokane, within Washington, has its own implicit groups: "arterials" and "all other roads". Other cities may have their own implicit speed limits, but I'm not familiar with them.

A simple "maxspeed:type=US:urban" isn't meaningful. You'd need tags such as "maxspeed:type="US-WA:county", "maxspeed:type=US-WA-Spokane:arterial", and "maxspeed:type=US-CA:undivided-highway". And given that many of these implicit speed limits are not well-known, you're better off requiring that any speed limit in the United States be entered as a number.

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[cliffordsnow]

When I use the app if I know the speed limit I add it. For instance, in my town, residential streets are mostly 25mph. In the county, unclassified are 35mph. Based on where I'm at, I know the speed limit. Other counties and cities use other defaults. Unless I know what they are I don't add the speed limit.

[westnordost]

It is good that you know this, but I fear that StreetComplete must do more here because it can not assume that every surveyor, like you, knows about the regulations what limits apply when and can be trusted to input the correct values without err.

As @Carnildo mentions, if it is irrelevant (in certain states) in the US whether a road is urban or rural for which implicit speed limit applies, StreetComplete should not record this. I already implemented a special rule for the United Kingdom, where this is also irrelevant if it is in or out of town but only whether it is a "dual carriageway" or a "single carriageway". So, in the UK, the app asks for that, not for urban vs. rural.

This kind of special rules need to be implemented for the US as well, ASAP, as for every week where StreetComplete asks for urban vs. rural in places where it is irrelevant is adding useless information.

Since no documentation exists yet in the OpenStreetMap wiki, we need to do the research here by ourselves. Let's use this issue for that. Perhaps, if we are fast (and perhaps you want to help) and the information is well available (in wikipedia?), an implementation can go into the next minor release. If not, then I'd consider turning off the complete quest for the US in the next minor release, until we have the necessary information.

[matkoniecz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States_by_jurisdiction

[westnordost]

I am working through this source right now!

[westnordost]

Also using http://www.safemotorist.com/Alabama/Roads/speed.aspx (and other pages on same website as source):

Leaving out school zones, if mentioned, because school zones are posted. Perhaps an answer option like "there is no sign, but there is a school zone" or something could be added.

Also, for some states, there are explicit speed limits for alleys (usually 15 mph). This is interesting, as is it a good use case for the service=alley tagging (I guess) but irrelevant for this app, because it does not ask for speed limits on service roads. Other states will have different speed limits for two-lane roads than for four-lane rounds, others (like UK) distinguish by single or dual carriageways.

From the wikipedia article and the other source, it is not always clear if the described limits are limits that are actually posted, or that the drivers are supposed to know (for the more complicated cases).

It would be good if someone else would go over each item in the list and also review if the research is correct. It would be good if several people would confirm or refute my findings.

State	Ask for...	Comment
Alabama (US-AL)	urban / rural
Alaska (US-AK)	residential district / business district / somewhere else
American Samoa (AS)	urban / rural	(aka built-up areas / open road)
Arizona (US-AZ)	urban / rural
Arkansas (US-AR)	urban / rural	sounds like question should even be asked for highway=trunk and motorway, but it may be that what is meant is that for every freeway within city limits, there will be signs
California (US-CA)	"business or residential district" / open road	California's "Basic Speed Law" seems to be reluctant to cough up some concrete max speed limits, but it comes down to that. Not sure if a distinction can be made between "built-up area" in general and "business or residential district" (think arterial roads through built-up areas, see Connecticut). If not, it would be simply "urban / rural" again.
Colorado (US-CO)	residential district / business districts / narrow, winding mountain roads / open mountain roads / rural roads	"Home-rule cities can also adopt a blanket speed limit for the whole town, such as 25 mph, and it will be that unless otherwise posted." So, something like a slow-zone for the whole town, hmm. Also, not sure what "open mountain highways" are supposed to be and if there are really no limits posted in these cases.
Connecticut (US-CT)	urban / rural -> if urban, "residential streets and central business districts" / arterial roadway	sounds like question urban/rural should even be asked for freeways, but it may be that what is meant is that for every freeway within city limits, there will be signs. But perhaps for the arterials as well? Also, distinction is made between divided / undivided (single carriageway / dual carriageway) roads
Delaware (US-DE)	urban / rural
Florida (US-FL)	urban / rural
Georgia (US-GA)	urban / rural (=other locations)	law is very clear here, by the way, that in urban freeways, the speed limit is lower, but it will be posted
Guam (GU)	urban / rural
Hawaii (HI)	?	(Probably urban/rural, I don't think it's 55mph also in residential zones)
Idaho (US-ID)	urban / rural
Illinois (US-IL)	urban / rural
Indiana (US-IN)	urban / rural
Iowa (US-IA)	residential district / business district / suburban district / somewhere else
Kansas (US-KS)	urban / "county or township highway" / other	whatever "county or township highway" means
Kentucky (US-KY)	urban / rural
Louisiana (US-LA)	? (urban/rural?)
Maine (US-ME)	urban/rural	(aka business or residential districts, or other built-up areas / other roads)
Maryland (US-MD)	?	(Sources do not speak of statuary limits, only posted limits )
Massachusetts (US-MA)	"thickly settled or business district" / other roads
Michigan (US-MI)	?
Minnesota (US-MN)	urban / "residential roadways if adopted by the road authority having jurisdiction over the residential roadway" (what?) / rural	sounds like question should even be asked for highway=trunk and motorway
Mississippi (US-MS)	?
Missouri (US-MO)
Montana (US-MT)
Nebraska (US-NE)
Nevada (US-NV)
New Hampshire (US-NH)
New Jersey (US-NJ)
New Mexico (US-NM)
New York (US-NY)
North Carolina (US-NC)
North Dakota (US-ND)
Ohio (US-OH)
Oklahoma (US-OK)
Oregon (US-OR)
Pennsylvania (US-PA)
Puerto Rico (PR / US-PR)
Rhode Island (US-RI)
South Carolina (US-SC)
South Dakota (US-SD)
Tennessee (US-TN)
Texas (US-TX)
Utah (US-UT)
Vermont (US-VT)
Virginia (US-VA)
Washington (US-WA)
West Virginia (US-WV)
Wisconsin (US-WI)
Wyoming (US-WY)
District of Columbia (US-DC)
American Samoa (AS / US-AS)
Guam (GU / US-GU)
Northern Mariana Islands (MP / US-MP)
Puerto Rico (US-PR)
United Sates Minor Outlying Islands (UM / US-UM)
Virgin Islands, U.S. (VI / US-VI)

To be continued...

[westnordost]

It's by the way such a shitty tagging scheme that one has to dwelve into each legislation of each country just to correctly tag "there is no speed limit sign", it's madness. There really should just be maxspeed=implicit ormaxspeed:type=implicit or something like this... :-(

[matkoniecz]

Well, with maxspeed=implicit one would anyway need to survey to check is it urban/rural/"residential streets and central business districts" - and that depends on location...

But maxspeed:implicit=yes or something like that would probably make sense.

[westnordost]

I'll definitely not be able to research, review and implement all this for the next bugfix update. So I am disabling this quest for US for now.

[westnordost]

I now gave up going through that wikipedia article and that other source. This is all too ambigous and incomplete. This really requires to look into the actual law.

[westnordost]

I found a better source. An official government source: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/summary_state_speed_laws_12th_edition_811769.pdf

Based on that source, I started putting the legislation into a YAML-based configuration file to showcase a possible format in which the implicit speed limits could be defined. See below.

US-AL:
  - maxspeed:type=US-AL:urban: 30 mph
  - surface=$UNPAVED: 35 mph
  - maxspeed:type=US-AL:rural: 45 mph
  - [highway=motorway, maxspeed:type=US-AL:interstate]: 70 mph
  - lanes>=4: 65 mph
  - 55 mph
US-AK:
  - highway=service: 15 mph
  - maxspeed:type=US-AK:business: 20 mph
  - maxspeed:type=US-AK:residential: 25 mph
  - 55 mph
US-AZ:
  - maxspeed:type=US-AZ:urban: 25 mph
  - [highway=motorway, maxspeed:type=US-AL:interstate]: 75 mph
  - 65 mph
US-AR:
  - maxspeed:type=US-AR:urban: 30 mph
  - 60 mph

However, I now recognize, that there are some open questions that need to be determined by the US community, I neither can nor want to simply define something here and it somewhat goes beyond the scope of this project to come up with something from scratch. So, the following points should be put into consideration when developing a (maxspeed:type-based) scheme for defining implicit speed limits:

1. Some states define a max speed for alleys, but do not define what exactly constitutes an alley, can it be roughly assumed to be the same as highway=service (+service=alley)?
2. States usually set a specific statuary speed limit for interstate highways, but it is not clear if all roads tagged as highway=motorway are actually interstates. And also, the other way round, if all interstates are tagged as highway=motorway. If not, a tag like maxspeed:type=US-XX:interstate would be necessary.
3. Based on my first research, many states define a different statuary speed limit for freeways in urban areas and a different one for freeways in rural areas. If this is true, and freeways are to be translated as highway=motorway and/or trunk, then this might need another maxspeed:type tag to differenciate.
4. Some states define explicitly a speed limit for school zones. It is the question if this needs another maxspeed:type tag then.
5. Some states define separate max speeds for 1. business districts, 2. residential districts, a few even for 3. suburban districts and 4. "arterial roadways". So there must be (for these states) some maxspeed:type definitions then.
6. Some states define different speed limits based on if the highway is divided or not (single or dual carriageway). The question is, if that information should be regarded as inferrable fromoneway=yes. If not, then again it must be tagged with some tag for maxspeed:type (like in Great Britain with nsl_dual and nsl_single).
7. Some states define different speed limits based on the number of lanes - usually for 4 or more. This seems straightforward to infer from the lanes key, but perhaps not if one thinks about dual carriageway highways, which are mapped as two separate ways (with each 4, then) in OSM.

In any case, the re-enablement of maxspeed quests for the United States is blocked until either the US community came together and developed a set of rules on that or a tag like maxspeed:implicit=yes would be accepted. So, closing this.

[matkoniecz]

If not, a tag like maxspeed:type=US-XX:interstate

Or maybe tag Interstate status (of not equivalent to highway=motorway), with something like motorway=yes.

[cliffordsnow]

I've posted this ticket on the [US Slack](Sign up at https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/) community.

For my state, Washington, the NHTSA has too many qualifiers that allow local government to change the maxspeed based on local conditions. For example, I take a scenic route on a state highway. It should be a 60MPH section, but because of the curves and limited shoulders, it's limited to 40MPH.

@matkoniecz highway=motorway isn't limited to just interstates in a small number of states.

[westnordost]

@cliffordsnow Yeah, but there are signs, right?

[cliffordsnow]

Yes - always signs - some well hidden just to increase city coffer through speeding tickets.

[Carnildo]

"highway=motorway" in the US is used for Interstate highways and for any other road built to Interstate standards. You don't need to worry about implicit speed limits for them: part of that standard is speed limit signs at every entrance, every change of speed limit (eg. going from rural to urban), and at intervals if it's been too long since the last sign.

[LivInTheLookingGlass]

Can you please just disable the type portion for the US? I dont get why that part is necessary at all if we can provide the explicit number.

[matkoniecz]

if we can provide the explicit number

What about roads where you can't?

[LivInTheLookingGlass]

For roads where there isn't an explicit number (so the user clicks "no sign"), you would treat it as a "hide for now" command. You don't want to eliminate the quest entirely because most of the untagged roads are still going to get useful data. You also don't want to mark it as a type because it's unclear. So the pragmatic solution is to prompt the user again when that portion of the quest is workable in the US.

[westnordost]

Sorry, I do not want to do this. That would mean that the quest would pop up for any other surveyor again and again (and also if you clear the app's data), until someone just inputs "some" (i.e. 25 mph) data to silence the quest being displayed again and again. It's against the quest guidelines, so to say, and there are good reasons for these guidelines.

It is in the interest of everybody to properly define the data needed for determining the implicit speed limits for the US, why not get down to it? It seems perhaps like a huge chunk of work, but I never said that the whole US needs to be defined. The quest can bit by bit be enabled by more and more states within the US. I already linked the best possible source for this information, it should be just up to the US community however to define how exactly the tags should look like, not up to me.

[1ec5]

It sounds like either maxspeed:type or zone:maxspeed would be a good way to tag the sort of “citywide unless otherwise posted” speed limit signs that are often displayed at the entrances to small towns. In many states, each village, town, city, and (in some cases) neighborhood can have its own implicit speed limits set by local ordinance (e.g., US:OH:HAM:Loveland:residential).

https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2b.htm#section2B13_para08 https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12925.msg314075#msg314075

Just to give a sense of scale, at least 325 jurisdictions in Ohio have received permission from the state to set a default speed limit lower than the statewide default. (In that state, local authorities don’t need permission to raise the default speed limit above the statewide default, so there’s an unknown number of those rules.) This is just one state – we could be talking about thousands of values, compared to the 311 or so maxspeed:type values or 711 colon-delimited source:maxspeed values that currently exist worldwide in OSM.

While a comprehensive database of these speed limits would eventually be useful, it would be such a massive undertaking that data consumers are unlikely to be able to use maxspeed:type in the U.S. for the foreseeable future. After all, a decade on, there still aren’t any major consumers of the network tag on road route relations at the state level, let alone the county or municipal level.

Given the impracticality of maxspeed:type tagging in the U.S., some sort of implicit tag as you proposed in https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/813#issuecomment-362929963 sounds reasonable to me. It would be a placeholder for something more specific in the future, unblocking the addition of a large amount of immediately useful data to the project (posted speed limits). If you still think this is worth doing, perhaps an informal request for comments on the talk-us list would be a good start?

[westnordost]

Absolutely. Though, maybe not maxspeed:type=implicit, because obviously, this is already taken/defined. But could be implicit_maxspeed=yes, or maybe even maxspeed=implicit or whatnot.

After discussion in the talk-us mailinglist, I think though that it is necessary to pitch it on a worldwide scale (talk-mailinglist, forums).

[1ec5]

As part of revamping the Ohio map features guide on the OSM Wiki, I compiled this flowchart for determining the implicit, unless-otherwise-posted speed limit of a road in that state. (These are just the main points; the actual legal situation is much more complex.) Having done this exercise, now I completely understand why you stopped short of Ohio in https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/813#issuecomment-362929963. 😉

[westnordost]

Next exercise: put it into context of OSM. After all, the road classification (expressway, freeway,...) is already there, so the flowchart becomes a bit simpler

Am 30. April 2018 08:33:27 MESZ schrieb "Minh Nguyễn" notifications@github.com:

As part of revamping the Ohio map features guide on the OSM Wiki, I compiled this flowchart for determining the implicit, unless-otherwise-posted speed limit of a road in that state. (These are just the main points; the actual legal situation is much more complex.) Having done this exercise, now I completely understand why you stopped short of Ohio in https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/813#issuecomment-362929963. 😉

<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Speed_limits_in_Ohio.svg" width="300">

[westnordost]

By the way, I started this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits

[ianthetechie]

@westnordost thanks for your work on that Wiki page! That may be the most comprehensive endeavor of the sort that I've seen.

Out of curiosity, have you proposed (or are you aware of any other discussions re:) getting this into OSM directly somehow (as part of admin tags, perhaps)?

[westnordost]

No, not yet. Other than time, two reasons:

• the mapping of road type -> OSM tags (and what kind of OSM tags may be missing yet) is not complete yet
• I wanted to have a parser that parses this wiki page into a JSON and will warn about any such missing mappings and other syntax errors in the wiki page; possibly a reference implementation in Javascript to interpret that JSON to showcase it

To be able to say "look, it works already, just use this data and this library" is going to make it easier to argue for getting rid of the source:maxspeed and maxspeed:type tagging and replacing it with a more reasonable tagging. (E.g. urban=yes instead of source:maxspeed=DE:urban etc)

Are you by chance, interested in writing such a parser? ;-)

[ianthetechie]

Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

All points make sense, and I couldn't agree more on wanting to present a full solution.

As a matter of fact, I had that exact thought (writing a parser) when I saw that the intent was to be machine readable. I guess you already answered my potential follow-up query as to whether or not one exists. Yes, I am interested in working on this.

For a bit more context, I arrived here via a comment you made on https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/issues/1069 as I contribute to valhalla occasionally, host some instances, and can't resist a good data improvement challenge. (To answer the question you posed there, defaults are hard-coded based on the road tags. TL;DR here: https://valhalla.readthedocs.io/en/latest/speeds/). I considered building a Spatialite DB from the wiki page. Valhalla takes a similar approach for TZ data already, but it would still be great if the data could be tagged at the admin level in OSM.

[westnordost]

Cool! I figured you came here from an interest in valhalla, I peeked at your profile :-)

I considered building a Spatialite DB from the wiki page. Valhalla takes a similar approach for TZ data already

What is TZ? Anyway, I don't really understand why it should be a Spatialite DB when it could be a simple (JSON) configuration file. Because the data is spatial in the sense that for every country (code), different rules apply?

[ianthetechie]

Sorry, TZ means timezone. My thought was that the current wiki page serves a similar purpose to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database, even though it isn't quite as complete (yet; I think it could be though with more OSMers contributing though; hence my idea to formalize a way to tag admin areas).

Like the TZ database, the wiki page references administrative areas, but does not describe their boundaries (by design; this is not a flaw necessarily). Valhalla and other tools need to answer the question "given coordinate (x, y), what time zone am I in." They currently do so by building a Spatialite DB from here: https://github.com/evansiroky/timezone-boundary-builder. A JSON file is probably the logical first step, but something combining OSM spatial data like this may be what applications like valhalla need.

[westnordost]

Like the TZ database, the wiki page references administrative areas, but does not describe their boundaries (by design; this is not a flaw necessarily).

Since incidentally (haha ;-), the boundaries of default speed limits follow the boundaries of administrative areas, the only thing one needs is a mapping of country codes to administrative areas. A reverse geocoder (coordinate -> country code). Got you covered here, check this out:

https://github.com/westnordost/countryboundaries

It should be pretty easy to port this to C++ because the library itself is pretty small. Without test code, about 500 LOC.

[ianthetechie]

Sweet; that's the idea ;)

[westnordost]

I am actually a bit surprised that Valhalla doesn't have something like this yet. After all, doesn't it need to know for example where people drive left and where people drive right?

For StreetComplete, I also got this information as a configuration file, here: https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/blob/master/res/country_metadata/isLeftHandTraffic.yml

[ianthetechie]

They do have that info in valhalla. The reason I suggested a Spatialite DB and/or shapefile was for broader usefulness in applications that don't.

[westnordost]

Ah okay, well, countryboundaries or a port thereof solves this problem.

[westnordost]

So, the research is complete, here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits @ianthetechie and me wrote a parser for this data here (newest in PR): https://github.com/stadiamaps/osm-default-speeds/pull/8 And there is the countryboundaries library to distinguish in which country any one road is.

However, what I had to realize during the research (first link), that the situation is so complex that the current maxspeed:type=<country_code>:<zone_type> is not really sufficient, in parts incorrect and in any case, I or someone else would have to invent a lot of tags for zone types all over the world. As an author of an editor, I will refrain from this because new tags should not be pushed by an editor. I tried several times to raise this issue on various channels, wiki, forums, chat and lastly the tagging mailing list ( https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-August/054948.html ) but the issue was largely either not understood or there was little interest in changing anything on the current situation.

I have not seen anyone else taking any initiative in consolidating the broken maxspeed tagging, so I don't see how the maxspeed quest could be enabled in the US.

[BalooUriza]

Given the roughly 7000 possible implicit speed limits in Oklahoma, I think the best way it could be handled for Oklahoma is to ask what the speed limit is, and of the answer is "there is no sign" just set it to maxspeed:type=implicit. Anything with maxspeed:type=implicit could then ask if the implicit speed limit is known, and what that value is.

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a resurvey task ask about once a hear "is the speed limit still __?" and if the answer is no, then ask what the new speed limit is. This could be once a week for things that are tagged construction=minor, and one more time (along with maxheight, maxweight, since these often change after construction) as a confirmation task after construction is complete.

[westnordost]

I'd prefer maxspeed:signed=no to denote that a stretch is not signposted with any speed limit because it does not conflict with the maxspeed:type scheme. However, maxspeed:signed is not really used (that much) yet, so prior discussion on tagging mailing list or another community channel is imperative.

[1ec5]

maxspeed:signed=no was discussed quite extensively on the tagging mailing list earlier this month.

[BalooUriza]

maxspeed:signed=no was discussed quite extensively on the tagging mailing list earlier this month.

Oh, thanks for bringing that up. I do like that one better.

[westnordost]

Was there any clear outcome out of this discussion though?

[matkoniecz]

Main outcome for me is that I need to describe better why it would be useful.

Right now I have already multiple proposals active and waiting for vote where people were less confused (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/healthcare%3Dsample_collection https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/remove_link_to_Wikidata_from_infoboxes are two in the queue).

And I plan to have no more than one active vote at once - so in near future I will be not working on it.

[tordans]

@westnordost does your recent work on the topic of maxspeed (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/westnordost/diary/399412) change the outcome of your findings in https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/813#issuecomment-688252355?

[westnordost]

no