Add panel with thumbnails as an alternative to bookmarks

[deveee]

As first, thanks for this lightweight pdf viewer. Previously I was using Okular, but it needs a lot of KDE's libraries as the dependencies.

In other pdf viewers you can usually change if you want to see bookmarks or thumbnails in left panel. It would be nice to see it in Sumatra.

[Jolar]

This would be a useful feature, especially for image archives/cbz/cbr files.

[Unknow0059]

It would be great if I had a thumbnail preview of all pages in the sidebar. I use that feature frequently in another, slower, PDF viewer, and this one doesn't have it. It would be convenient if it did. However, not as a replacement for bookmarks.

[GitHubRulesOK]

Which is easier to use and takes the minimal amount of screen space Bookmarks can be edited by the user without editing the master file contents

How much slower are you prepared to go ? When viewing multiple pages at once can take much longer to draw them all How long will you wait before switching off because of loading that 400 page book you want to see all the thumbnails for ? see similar request https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf/issues/1162 If simply viewing just one thumbnail at the same time why bother waiting twice as long ? okular shows a smaller duplicate thumbnail view of the current pages (WHY It just halves your life times)

For now its easy to use twice as many instances and half as much screen space with two windows into the same file like this

> I use that feature frequently in another, slower, PDF viewer, and this one doesn't have it.

Yes that's perfectly right It would almost certainly be slower if it did.

[SumatraPeter]

How long will you wait before switching off because of loading that 400 page book you want to see all the thumbnails for ?

I don't see what the big deal is. I have used comic book reader apps that even on an old Android tablet have no problem generating thumbnails fairly quickly using a background thread as soon as any CBx is opened. Unless one scrolls the thumbnails panel forward a large number of pages immediately after opening a comic, one can't even see the thumbnails being generated in the background. Moreover the page thumbnails can optionally be cached as well, so that subsequent viewing of the same file results in very fast thumbs display. Heck, even Word seems to do fairly well when it comes to generating thumbs for very large documents. Plus of course the better the hardware running Sumatra is, the less thumb generation/scrolling speeds should be a problem.

Bookmarks, as useful as they are, are obviously not a 1:1 replacement for thumbnails. So while the request might remain in limbo simply because no-one's interested in implementing it, I don't think slow speed should be used as an excuse to suggest that the feature won't be useful.

[GitHubRulesOK]

@SumatraPeter whilst many old file formats supported secondary / embedded thumbnails (possibly even multiple adaptive copies to interlace in turn) few tend to carry that extra baggage. PDF/CBX usually depend on scaled duplicate renderings of the full page For the example given above on this machine it takes approx 10 seconds to load the "thumbnail" 16 page pre-view and only 2 seconds to load any single page I select from favourites. using acrobat it is 72 images visible at this scale with approx 1 second each , you can see it has not yet re-built them all in this screenshot and just like for any document reflow any movement retriggers the 72 second delay

[SumatraPeter]

@GitHubRulesOK: I know fully well that PDF/CBx files don't contain embedded thumbs, which is why I talked about the process of generating them using a bg thread, caching etc.

Two points - First, I have no clue what sort of hardware "this machine" has, but even if I did, there's no point making a general statement about speed/performance when it's obviously gonna be a different experience for everyone depending on what they own. Also, I know attention spans have shrunk like anything, but don't rule out the fact that if a feature if really useful then people might not mind a small initial delay.

Second, Adobe's bloated buggy software would be the last thing I'd ever use as an example of good programming (their Flash IMO ranks as one of the worst programs in history).

I'd love to see a competent dev actually write some fast tightly optimized code to handle this, and see how it performs on even semi-decent modern hardware. I honestly don't think the experience would be as terrible as you're making it out to be.

[Unknow0059]

Yes that's perfectly right It would almost certainly be slower if it did.

I'm not implying that's the reason it is slower, nor do I think it could be. Even if the thumbnails are on screen or being generated, it is not any slower than normal. I meant it is generally slower. Do not misconstrue my words.

If this feature will NOT be implemented, at least let me add custom bookmarks. Favorites don't cut it, because they aren't file specific and aren't convenient to add.

[GitHubRulesOK]

I am not misconstruing anything simply observing that in all likelihood the more graphics bloat you introduce over time the slower applications becomes, unless you force users to keep upgrading the hardware. Without doubt if early Concurrent DOS & Windows had been hardened and secured correctly to run on today's hardware we would not need to discuss slowdown nor would we need antivirus causing more interrupts bloat etc.

This thread was initially a comparison with a nice lightweight Linux Pdf document reader then expanded to wider graphics formats such as CBx where visual Table Of Contents/Bookmarks/Thumbnails make more sense. This thread was similar/related to https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf/issues/1311 (thumbnails inside files)

These topics are distinctly different to the need to see cover thumbnails in either the frequently read screen or in windows explorer where a visual clue as to contents is highly useful.

As a means to select a page of text amongst others a thumbnail is of lesser value, compared to a navigational tree of named destinations (ToC / Bookmarks)

Here on windows okular is struggling to re-draw both the thumbnail and page view at the same time My point is why waste time doing both nothing is being gained and user is only suffering a loss

Custom Bookmarks are almost possible now (undocumented features) but take time to develop and could be dropped see https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf/issues/660

[Unknow0059]

I'll be on the lookout for the custom bookmarks feature.

[GitHubRulesOK]

Later edit

Experimental feature is now removed @Unknow0059 If you use a portable copy of pre-release or daily and open a pdf that has no bookmarks (or even one that has)

right click the new bookmarks option

You can play with the ToC editor

Please raise any questions under a separate topic as this one is for thumbnails

[SumatraPeter]

Here on windows okular is struggling to re-draw both the thumbnail and page view at the same time

A KDE app ported to Windows? Why does the slow behavior not surprise me? 🙄🙂 Meanwhile when I downloaded the same issue of Analog and opened it up in a portable copy of PDF-XChange Editor, the thumbs panel got populated pretty fast using multiple background threads (so the main document UI and rendering didn't get locked up) and the data got cached as well. Not to mention one can tweak all these settings too:

My point is why waste time doing both nothing is being gained and user is only suffering a loss

I whole-heartedly disagree, since your argument presupposes that the process is going to be excruciatingly slow, which would just not be the case with a well-coded app on a machine with even semi-decent hardware (I didn't exactly test PDF-XChange on a beast of a PC here - far from it!).

Not to start a fight, but frankly I don't understand why you're pushing this specious 'slow speed' argument so hard and advocating against this feature? The fact is that many apps do implement this and many folks do find it useful. Now, this issue might remain open purely because no-one's willing to do the actual work of writing and testing all the necessary code (yet), but why queer the pitch and repeatedly suggest to any dev reading this that the feature is worthless and not worth implementing at all?

[GitHubRulesOK]

@SumatraPeter I agree it is very well implemented in Tracker products and have used thumbnails in Word and hundreds of other graphics editors to increase productivity. Potentially benefiting thousands of times a year for 4 decades But when that feature impacts my usage (most noticeably in reviewing or reading apps) it is one of the first features to be switched off. If a programmer with graphics programming skills wishes to add thumbnail support I am not against it but hope they also work on other graphic improvements first

[SumatraPeter]

I agree it is very well implemented in Tracker products

Glad that you've finally seen that it can be done well in a PDF app too.

But when that feature impacts my usage (most noticeably in reviewing or reading apps) it is one of the first features to be switched off.

Nobody ever suggested for a second that it would be foisted onto everyone with no means to be turned off (which is why your opposition to it was a bit confusing - I mean, let it be implemented whenever possible even if you don't want it or find it slow!). Every app I've seen to date that offers a thumbs view/panel makes it optional. If implemented as envisaged, users will be able to show/hide it just like they can with Bookmarks and Favorites at present.

hope they also work on other graphic improvements first

There's lots to be done so let's leave it to the dev(s) to prioritize.

P.S. After this recent hullabaloo I fully expect this issue to go back into hibernation for another 5 years or so till someone resurrects it again! 😆

[Unknow0059]

I downloaded Okular from the Microsoft Store just to try it out. The thumbnails don't lag down the experience. I hope that this issue (or rather, the new one it's been moved to) does not go into hibernation. By the way, thanks for showing me how to use custom bookmarks.

[PolGZ]

Well, here is another one that wishes this was an option. I don't even mean for it to be a default one, just something those users that want it can enable it, knowing it might slow down the process.

I've been opening pdfs for ages in different linux apps with thumbnails and I never found them anything but lighting fast. Now, that I work I must use one of the company's windows computer, I have searched for an open-source PDF viewer app, just to run away from that bloated sh*t from Adobe... but I can't really feel confortable without the thumbnails. When you have a few "medium/large" documents opened for many hours, and you are moving from one page to another, checking things, going back and forth... it does nothing but make the experience way faster.

I think this is a productivity/confort/ease-of-use option that should be available. In my case if I just wanted to give a quick look to some pdf on a web or mail, I woundn't even download it and just open it straight on the browser, which happens instantly. Buf for those documents I deal with at work every week, that even stay open for very large periods of time, which have a few diagrams/pictures, some tables... but more than just 5 or 6 pages, it is sooo much quicker to have the help of a thumbnail preview on the side...

I mean, in my case, it is making me stay, for now, with damn Adobe... which I hate with all my heart. So, I think this sould be concidered by the devs, if possible.

Thank you very much!

[GitHubRulesOK]

@PolGZ you may note from the discussion above that there are lightweight alternative options to adobe such as okular or the advocated Tracker eXchange products until and IF thumbnails were added to SumatraPDF. In the forum and here in github issues there are several examples where SumatraPDF and exchange editor can be integrated on a page by page basis.

[PolGZ]

@GitHubRulesOK I did search for tracker exchange, but not only that is not open source software, but also I was welcomed with an 40/50$ pricincing license. So inmediately closed that (I can see now that some options would work with free license)

And as for okular I could only find the windows store way to install, wich on personal computers I would refuse to use. What is the point on avoinding windows telemetry, using open source apps and having to install something trough my microsoft account on their private hosted app-service. So I discarted that as well (although, I would do that at work for now).

But due to your comment, I read a bit more thoroughly, and I saw it could be installed via chocolatey as well. I may try that. Thanks.

(Anyway, I wanted to leave that comment to kindly ask for that option. And I take this opportunity again to thank the team for their work)

[GitHubRulesOK]

@PolGZ Tracker will add watermarks to extended features and many users still rely on the older less commercial freemium "view" version which when installed used to be recognised by SumatraPDF and automatically added to the file menu. You could also look at testing out https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Nightly_win64/

[Tback1]

This feature is most useful in working with TotalCMD to quickly preview whether a PDF is complete or not

[GitHubRulesOK]

@Tback1 PDF preview in Windows 10 is now so good that even I, don't use SumatraPDF or Tracker Previews (preferring them both to be portable rather than installed with previews active) The added bonus of using New Edge as default PDF annotator is MS have restored the most basic extras of Read Aloud and Comment Inking (but do I use SumatraPDF for text comments and Tracker for anything more.

[avelican]

Foxit has this feature. The thumbnails render almost instantaneously while you scroll the page preview pane. As an aside, it renders entire pages (in the regular document view) 2-3x faster as well.

I have settled on Sumatra for now because the scrolling is much, much smoother, but finding pages is much slower and less pleasant for those two reasons.

[Tback1]

@Tback1 PDF preview in Windows 10 is now so good that even I, don't use SumatraPDF or Tracker Previews (preferring them both to be portable rather than installed with previews active) The added bonus of using New Edge as default PDF annotator is MS have restored the most basic extras of Read Aloud and Comment Inking (but do I use SumatraPDF for text comments and Tracker for anything more.

I agree your opinion for the preview in Windows 10,but I ask the privew not for prievew ,but for check does the PDF is completed. but after years , I looking another way use a pdf plugin to check the pages instead for the privew