sunflower-land / sunflower-land

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[PROPOSAL] Delayed Token Launch #519

Closed adamhannigan closed 2 years ago

adamhannigan commented 2 years ago

The purpose of this proposal is to vote on a delayed token launch.

Why

The game has been live for 4 days and through community feedback we have discovered a few areas that we would like to improve. Once the tokens go live for trading, all hell can break loose. If we don't have a game and community that is ready to scale we will be destined to fail. On token launch, we need to ensure that we have the systems and infrastructure in place that could be ready to onboard and support up to a million users.

These areas include:

Proposal

DonatasDee commented 2 years ago

Just survive the initial backlash and this is absolutely the right way to go.

Some of the discussions held happened a bit late , hence the delay is very needed.

SrCouve commented 2 years ago

It was something I already expected, I agree with this proposal, but I suggest that the possibility of the mint Nfts continue on the 15th, since the game is already running, I think it's interesting to release the mint, so that countless players feel that they already have something to do, and also so that players who are actually playing and not just the whales can have the NFTs, considering that with the market released, the whales can buy all the resources without having to plant anything

adamhannigan commented 2 years ago

@SrCouve That is an interesting point 👌 Definitely open to something like this.

We do want to reserve some of the items to help drive the demand for tokens (SFL, gold etc.) on the open market when the game launches.

I definitely think we can arrange some to be crafted.

DonatasDee commented 2 years ago

@adamhannigan The T1 NFT's should probably be craftable. Alongside fountains and such, the cheaper ones that are in large quantities.

DonatasDee commented 2 years ago

Although that being said, you're in risk of bots and spammers minting them in mass..

SrCouve commented 2 years ago

Embora dito isso, você está em risco de robôs e spammers minerando-os em massa.

With the market and Withdrawal closed the advantage of the bots is reduced significantly, in my opinion the main advantage of the bots is to farm the SFL and the resources in multiple accounts at the same time, when you prevent the exchange of resources you also prevent all resources from several accounts to be transferred to one, preventing him from having enough to make an NFT faster than honest players, in my opinion the mint of NFTs has to be released, but the withdraw does not, on the 15th

GoblinNoLikePotato commented 2 years ago

I agree with the delay in the token launch. However, I'm not sure if allowing crafting to be live first would be a good idea. we had created a lot of confusion with the initial plan for the 15th alone, I'm just afraid the community will be more confused if we change it in that way.

Also on the delay, I think we need some sort of clear examples or infographic before the launch of the token in exactly what is going to happen.

(some examples of the questions that we get constantly now (and not limited to):

So my argument is that we should enable/disable all at the same time unless we have clear guidelines on what leads to what and what players can or cannot do in those specific timelines.

wildwebd commented 2 years ago

@adamhannigan Believe in your feelings. If you are afraid of not being ready, then you are not. We must not rush things. "Slow and steady wins the race" 😉

I agree to delay the token launch, everything you said makes sense.

Giving the possibility to craft NFTs to reward the real farmers and counter the whales : I like the idea. But not all the NFTs, "to reserve some of the items to help drive the demand for tokens (SFL, gold etc.) on the open market when the game launches" like you said, and to keep the hope of the open beta players to have still some time to craft them.

Laoshi-Ferdy commented 2 years ago

We have released the announcement that we can craft NFT on 15 April 2022, both from discord and from the game.

Not to mention we have announced the token launch will be at 15 April 2022.

I believe most of the people not read all the proposal here in github and doesn't really know what is going on behind the scenes, even after you post the announcement in discord that we want to delay the token release to 1 May 2022, based on my experience most of them will not read it all, not to mention it's 4 days left before 15 April 2022. ^^"

In my opinion, we need to consist for everything that we have said before in the previous announcement, and keep release SFL token in 15 April 2022 and some NFT which can be able to craft on that day. ( obviously for the NFT which has no problem to be released on that day)

If the team is not really sure about one feature or NFT to be released at 15 April 2022, only then that specific feature or NFT we can adjust it to be able crafted at 1 May 2022 or maybe more time as much as the team needed.

I think by doing this, people will understand that this game is in "developing mode", not all the feature will be available directly 100% perfect at first, but we as community builder have to kept our promise since day 1 to our player.

If we lose money, we will not lose anything. If we lose trust, we will lose "everything".

Nice job for all of us.

NiielsP commented 2 years ago

To be honest, I feel like it's a good thing. Because if we don't delay the token and allow players to sell their ressources on the 15th, it will be a mess. For exemple : there is 4.7k wheat in circulation Let's say we have 193 people that wants to craft kuebiko on the 15th. Then more than 110k wheat is needed. But as no one will be even close to have 600 wheat, then they will need to buy it from the market. So we will have a crazy high demand and no one to supply. Then wheat will be worth like 20$ and it doesn't make any sense. Same goes for wood and the beaver, 1.4M demand or so, and 300k supply right now. Wood would be crazy expensive as well.

So as a beta tester I would love to see the token go live on the 15th, but hjonestly, it will be mayhem regarding ressources and their prices. (Unless the prices of the NFT are changed, but I do believe the prices will still be high so the supply would not be enough)

mrbeastgarden commented 2 years ago

I don't mind the token delay but you need to reduce some of this NFT prices and instead put a larger supply.

brian-man commented 2 years ago

I don't mind the token delay but you need to reduce some of this NFT prices and instead put a larger supply.

If you want to make NFTs feel rare but not feed them to whales (whenever they launch), make them time limited not volume limited.

SrCouve commented 2 years ago

Something that worries me is the accumulation of SFL for another two weeks without being withdrawn, and few burns because the NFts cannot be minted yet, an interesting alternative would be an exclusive collection of decorative NFTS for this period, which could only be minted during the next two weeks, in my opinion, would be a good way to stimulate the burning of resources for the launch of the token, and a way to keep players in the game

manolman commented 2 years ago

Imo, if you need time to fix important issues that postpone launch of token and withdrawal of items. But let ppl craft nft's. This will take some SFL, gold etc. from cicrulation and reward hard working farmers. They will not craft all of them for sure. So some will be available for crafting. Additionally there will be new ones in the future.

tidalnft commented 2 years ago

I agree with delaying the token launch but I think we need to unlock some of the NFTs to be crafted to help burn some resources and SFL that's currently in circulation.

denniss98 commented 2 years ago

To be frank, this proposal makes a really valid point, it's better for the team and not just the team, the whole community, to launch the token with confidence and implement the crucial features that will contribute to the robustness and reliability of the system. The last thing we want is a failed token launch.

No rush. I'm in support of the token delay.

Something to keep in mind, something that came up while discussing this proposal with one of my friends;

2 extra weeks is quite a bit of time, 3 weeks in total for open beta testers and countless weeks for closed beta testers. That opens a longer period of gathering resources and potentially will incentivize a larger sell pressure than anticipated for the launch of the 15th.

Perhaps enabling the mint of cheaper T1 NFTs as suggested earlier would encourage players to allocate their resources to those said NFTs and minimize the risk of dumping. Although who knows what the individual community members will do on token launch.

Personally, I'm all for the delayed token launch, also more time to explore any other outstanding bugs and exploits and get a fix in for them too.

AlexddrX commented 2 years ago

If you propose a launch before May 1st, there will be too much supply of tokens. The SFL will drop very hard and will cause a large number of players. If you are not ready to turn off the game and start it on May 1st.

zAgenTe commented 2 years ago

Something that worries me is the accumulation of SFL for another two weeks without being withdrawn, and few burns because the NFts cannot be minted yet, an interesting alternative would be an exclusive collection of decorative NFTS for this period, which could only be minted during the next two weeks, in my opinion, would be a good way to stimulate the burning of resources for the launch of the token, and a way to keep players in the game

I agree with what was said, I think there should be an SFL burn during these weeks, and for that to happen, there would be the creation of exclusive NFTs for that period.

stevew00dy commented 2 years ago

Having read all the comments I feel grateful for so many people contributing their thoughts.

No one likes delays but people like failure even less. Some short term pain to prevent some long term suffering is in my opinion, not even a debate.

As much as I, and everyone really want to see a token launch on the 15th and we all pride ourselves on launching early ... we need to respect the potential impact this can have both for and against.

Pros on delays

Cons on delay

I'm sure there are more but this is what I feel and also from reading everyone above.

Adam, you are doing incredible work and whilst I know in your heart you want to be decentralised .... people are not fully ready for that step yet. Therefore whilst you take advice from people here, you need to do in your gut, what you know is right.

You wouldn't launch a rocket if there was a red light, no matter how small. It would be madness to launch this if you are not 100%

People will overcome their feelings and we can manage their expectations with solid communication and a clear structure moving forward so that it's clear and not rushed.

We should act quickly to give people time to adjust and also stop and FUD that might appear.

We are in Beta and people need to understand this. We can focus the attention on the bad actors so the community know the reasons for the delay. This also will help them to look out for this people who cheat.

I suggest

Create a discord channel for those who want to report bad actors, with a limited edition NFT that they can craft if information leads to a ban. Maybe some grass 😳

I also agree with comments about keeping the main NFTs locked to stop a transfer of SFL from bad actors into other assets which will make it harder to track.

Give it a week to remove as many cheaters as possible and then launch a series of smaller decorative NFTs in larger quantities to burn some SFL and also lock them 1 per account.

Don't launch the SFL token and don't allow any in game utility to further increase SFL minting at this time.

Maybe this can all be done around lore, a storm hands over sunflower land and if it gets to the point, crop harvest can be affected to help reduce the mint to ease the launch.

Whatever you decide .. you have my full support.

RogGarcia commented 2 years ago

Hello. I support the proposal and agree with the balance of the game, but I have concerns about the amount of tokens that will be generated until this new date and ready for withdrawal (even with the fees applied for small amounts). I don't know if the liquidity pool will support 50k people making withdrawals in a few days (if I'm right about the token value, it's going to be crazy...). Perhaps in a first phase it would be interesting to limit the maximum withdrawal amount that, for example, only covers the gas fees spent on synchronization or to release withdrawals by batches, where in a first phase only the first 1000 farms could make withdrawals, then farms 1001-5000, as I believe older users would be more willing to contribute to the liquidity poll...

EDIT: just speculating...to make the withdrawal, you might need to have the banker's NFT, or the wagon NFT...this way it would be possible to calculate, with some precision, the time that someone would have to play (and accumulate all the items - wood, iron etc - and SFL) before being able to make a withdrawal and it would not be necessary to delay the launch of the token

Aeon-LlamaMod commented 2 years ago

I support the delay although I was counting on the token being live to continue planting and resource gathering. I think with the current on going issues and requests a delay is needed. I think though as some users mentioned if the NFTs get delayed that will be a bigger concern for others. I think delaying the most saught after ones would be alright though.

AlexddrX commented 2 years ago

If you are going to postpone the withdrawal of the token, then I propose to reduce by 90% the profit from farming.

matiferrari10 commented 2 years ago

please do not start with the date changes, much less making an external discussion to the channel that only 1% participates

Frozenhate commented 2 years ago

from what i hear its not the first sunflower game you make, have you not learned anything? and you also opened a closed beta and still no insight into problems that games like these bring? and now one of your proposals is "On token launch, we need to ensure that we have the systems and infrastructure in place that could be ready to onboard and support up to a million users." Yeah no...you had your time. Many bigger games existed and they all went through their dump phase, if you want your game to endure just go with the flow, its called economy for a reason.

Luc0414 commented 2 years ago

please do not start with the date changes, much less making an external discussion to the channel that only 1% participates

Tambel1979 commented 2 years ago

I agree with what many of the commenters have said, and especially with what @Stevew00dy said. The team knows whether a delay is the best path at this point, not the players. To go with the rocket analogy Steve used, if a red light was on but the astronauts still wanted to lift off because they were psyched to go into space, mission control wouldn't okay the liftoff because of their feelings.

One big point I'd like to make is that this issue needs to get out to the players NOW. The big storm over Sunflower Land theme is a good idea, I think. Add it to the lore. Also the Discord channel to identify bots and cheaters, which is the game's biggest threat as evidenced by what happened to SL before.

I'm not an OG, but I really like the game, not just for making money, but for playing. It's peaceful and relaxing and with the possibility of at least supporting your play with what you make down the road. I'm with @adamhannigan on this.

Luke9086 commented 2 years ago

I definitely oppose the proposal. I have been waiting from January 7th when v1 was shut down. It has been so long, I keep browsing the discord group and twitter account over and over again for 2 months. I am tired of endless waiting and hope the token can be online on time. If we put it off, many potential players will be frustrated and give up joining our game. Please don't delay the launch 😭😭😭. We can deal with bots while the token s are traded. It does not matter at all.

Reda2017 commented 2 years ago

Hello everyone ! it's my first time on github. i'm enjoying reading proposals and comments :D. i came here to share my opinion. i am with the proposal if it's better for the long terme economy and the game in general. there are many ppl waiting to buy SFL and mint NFTs just as there's other ppl who just want to dump the token, abuse minting system etc... unfortunately botters, whales, multiaccounts will have impact on the economy.

i have a suggestion, idk if it was already mentioned. "Minting require level(nft farm)". i have seen similar thing where minting only if you have adequate skill(removed) but could be well replaced with level of the farm in general. this way only engaged and serious ppl will have acces to "certain" NFTs.

We could go with categories. *level of the farm combined (gathering + mining).

FearBoBz commented 2 years ago

a solution that I think would be good to avoid the massive eviction, would be to limit the loot to, for example 10 per day, and banish and fix the bugs, and then release it for loot in the original way. this way the token would be released, the community would not be frustrated, and you would have time to run after the hackers

Cicciolin0 commented 2 years ago

Delay listing and Market it's OK, but we still should be able to craft NFTs in the 15th

GoblinNoLikePotato commented 2 years ago

Here is my updated thoughts after reading all the comments.

My Concern :

My Proposal

NFT

For example: T1 to be unlock first(in the nearest possible), T2(a week later or the next update), and finally T3 should only be available on the official launch (because it doesn't make sense that the 'OP end-game' item can be acquired even before that)

TOKEN

While I understand that the current Tax System is to encourage the crafting. But this tax design always end up in benefiting botters and hurting the players instead. It is not a prevention but just profits reduction of 25-30%, botters don't care about taxes because profits is profits, and they don't need to pay anything else on top of that. And because of the earning potential, they will end up paying lesser tax than generic players.

I hope my points can give you guys some different point of view regarding this. As much as we want to show support for the team's vision we also need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture with real world indication.

sometimes we get carried away by sentiments because of the emotions investment in the project, especially for those who have been with the team for a longer time. However is important to remember that we are still at the early stage and which rational thinking is very important

Never the less, we're still the best community. Cheers sunflowers fam!

BanInstinct commented 2 years ago

if it's for the good of the game, let it be delayed. 🌻

Ramtin9 commented 2 years ago

We support whatever you guys decide that will improve the game ❤

adamhannigan commented 2 years ago

Lots of great points we are taking into consideration.

We will be launching the crafting of tier 1 boosts on the 15th and a range of cosmetic items.

@baobaopipi Some good ideas around a gradual withdraw on launch to help stabilise the economy 👏

Cicciolin0 commented 2 years ago

Could maybe consider lowering the 0.1 tax for syncing if the delay actually happens, that would make people happier

block-kid commented 2 years ago

I've had the same thoughts around the token as @baobaopipi, another option could be a taxed cooldown period on withdrawals. Examples of possible options:

Dajoenie commented 2 years ago

I think looking at the industry as a whole there is wiggle room to improve things. Gala Games, for example, has been fundraising and teasing for a long time now and they don't have a blockchain yet. Last I checked they haven't even named it. Point being, I don't see a AAA company stepping into this space to steal market position. That has been one concern of mine. With that in mind I do think the project has an opportunity to delay with less dramatics then you would see if problems crop up after launch.

Khazix73 commented 2 years ago

You have to think about the consequences that a delay could bring, I am mainly talking about scams, many people will create a fake token on the 15th that will destroy the game before the launch and swindle a lot of money that can be beneficial for the game, apart from that the confusion of people not knowing what will happen, if people are deceived they will not trust your game anymore, is just my opinion, I seen NFt projects going down before lunch for the same reason like cryptogodz

at the end you need to choose deal with the bots or deal with token scams, I think scams are worse in my opinion.

WUUYE commented 2 years ago

In my opinion, there are pros and cons to a delayed release. But the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. The first is the issue of reputation. The first thing everyone saw when they opened the official website was the token sale on the 15th, but it was postponed. In the midst of a long wait, near release, a sudden delay can make people uncomfortable and feel cheated. Especially those who have been playing v1 and have always believed in the team. Will this cause division among old players, continue to believe or flee? And it will have an impact on attracting new players. Delaying the release will make fewer bots, etc., few people will notice. They will only care that your promise is not fulfilled and lie to them.Everything has two sides After the delay, there will be scams, players leaving, reputation problems, etc. We need to consider many aspects And one more thing, if you're determined to delay, you need to do better. Not perfect but should be better. Cheers team! Thank you for reading, this is my personal subjective opinion and does not represent the opinions of others. I used translation, please forgive me

blockpanda commented 2 years ago

It's a bad decision, don't get caught in a loop of delays or it will reduce the enthusiasm of the participants Go live on time, identify issues and resolve them dynamically

lets2i commented 2 years ago

Seems like that it already was decided that we will have a delayed token launch.

Here's my issue if it:

My suggestion would be

So all in all, what I can get from the first post is, that the issue lies in bad actors and bots. It's a cat and mouse game, bad actors are going to find a way around it eventually and then it's on the team to get ahead of them.

dpx63 commented 2 years ago

It's a bad decision, don't get caught in a loop of delays or it will reduce the enthusiasm of the participants Go live on time, identify issues and resolve them dynamically

I think the same.

MaartenV87 commented 2 years ago

I think the best idea is to release the token but limit in-game withdrawals to certain % tax until anti botting measures are in place.

reymarpabito commented 2 years ago

Wow, so many great ideas and suggestions, amazing! At first, I really like the game to be delayed since there are lots of issues recently regarding people using and selling scripts, bots, auto clicker tools (macro), and doing automation and multi-accounting actions that resulted in lots of farms being blacklisted. I also have collected a few resources for crafting NFTs so the delay can help me cope up haha just kidding xD.

But then I realized that it's easier to break things than to fix things, meaning - no matter how hard the team patches, fix or solve such issues, these greed-driven individuals will continue to look for vulnerabilities to exploit and automate the game. So I think it's best to handle and combat them dynamically moving forward. Also, Khazix73 has a point that scammers might also be preparing for the token launch this April 15 and might create fake $SFL tokens fooling people to buy them that day. If that happens, most of the scammed people will then spread FUD and bring toxic vibes about the game, ruining Sunflower Land's reputation big-time, similar to what matey Steve said. And I quote:

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that you'll do things differently." -Warren Buffett

Additionally, delaying the token launch as everyone said, can increase the supply of earned tokens per farm account meaning the money-driven individuals - who don't really care about the game - will not be penalized heavily by the tax rates set in place. It will also create a pump-and-dump effect during the delayed token launch date.

Therefore, I agree with some of the people above to continue to launch the token this April 15 since it's already widespread news and announcing a token launch delay might fall short and not reach lots of people. But, same with the suggestions above, certain measures should be put in place. I like GoblinNoLikePotato's idea of a "gradually unlocking set up" both on the token and NFTs which I think is a win-win situation. I like lets2i's insights as well.

LFG Sunflower Land! 😎🚀🌻🔥

MarketParticipant commented 2 years ago

The team is in the position to judge whether a delay would solve more issues than it would create. The rest of us don't have enough information to have valuable opinions.

The fact that you are bringing it up seems to indicate that, based on the feedback from beta, it would have been better to have scheduled a longer open beta period and that it would probably be valuable to extend the beta to fix the largest issues.

In general, the community of players trusts you, and whatever you decide, the vast majority will support the decision. Based on the reaction to the previous delay it seems pretty obvious that the people who have invested a lot of time or money into the game would rather see it launch well than launch soon.

MarketParticipant commented 2 years ago

The team is in the position to judge whether a delay would solve more issues than it would create. The rest of us don't have enough information to have valuable opinions.

The fact that you are bringing it up seems to indicate that, based on the feedback from beta, it would have been better to have scheduled a longer open beta period and that it would probably be valuable to extend the beta to fix the largest issues.

In general, the community of players trusts you, and whatever you decide, the vast majority will support the decision. Based on the reaction to the previous delay it seems pretty obvious that the people who have invested a lot of time or money into the game would rather see it launch well than launch soon.

For people reacting, especially disagreeing, it would be helpful to say which part I am right or wrong about.

Aminbtdds commented 2 years ago

I think this is the decision only team members qualified to take, because community loves to see token listing and launch, pure emotions and hype, but team members have enough data and knowledge to speculte lack of improvement in certain measures like anti bot and mint verification would kill our game, So do ur best without rushing things❤🙏

Dajoenie commented 2 years ago

I have to change my position on the issue. I think that the idea of imposters trying to sell knock off SFL is very real like some people above me have stated. I believe the damage to people, who don't know any better, are very real. I believe the damage to the integrity of the project is very real. Just wanted it on record. I don't want to be morally accountable for my earlier comment should people get hurt. I think the project should launch as stated and call for all hands on deck to help get through it.

appolo99 commented 2 years ago

i think if there is no way to handle bugs without delaying token launch, you have to suspend the open beta until launch, halvening is approaching more and more.

brian-man commented 2 years ago

I have to change my position on the issue. I think that the idea of imposters trying to sell knock off SFL is very real like some people above me have stated. I believe the damage to people, who don't know any better, are very real. I believe the damage to the integrity of the project is very real. Just wanted it on record. I don't want to be morally accountable for my earlier comment should people get hurt. I think the project should launch as stated and call for all hands on deck to help get through it.

Agree, though I wouldn't paint it quite so darkly.

But D is right: if the team doesn't launch SFL on Apr 15th, at least 1 bad actor will.

Refinement of my position: