Pronominal verbs

[perrier54]

The UD guidelines propose to use expl:pv relations between pronominal verbs and their reflexive clitic. In SUD, I propose to use comp@expl. Since they are not grammatical locutions, I propose not to label them with Idiom = Yes.

Example: "ils s'enfuient (they run away)" "enfuient" -[comp@expl]-> s'

[kimgerdes]

that looks reasoable for the reflexive clitics. yet, it'll be a hard task to actually delimit the @expl extension, see https://github.com/UniversalDependencies/docs/issues/461

[perrier54]

Pronominal verbs fall into the broader category of verbs that are combined with clitic pronouns to form fixed expressions. Examples in French : en vouloir (to be angry), s'en aller (go away)... I propose to use the same label comp@expl as for pronominal verbs to name the relation between the verb and the clitic pronoun. Pronominal verbs can be distinguished by the feature Reflex=True attached to the reflexive pronoun.

[AurelienSH]

Just to make sure, what I understood is that the feature Reflex=True should only be used for fixed expressions, but as you can see with this request : http://universal.grew.fr/?custom=629f169c7421b the feature has been added for every reflexive pronoun, does it need fixing or has the feature changed purpose ?

[perrier54]

The feature Reflex=Yes is used in the same sense as in UD, for all reflexive pronouns, regardless of their syntactic function.

[AurelienSH]

Ok, here's what we have in mind regarding relations regarding reflexive pronouns :

First we gathered that the feature Reflex=Yes needs to be applied to pronouns having the same reference as the subject and that are placed between the tensed verb and the subject itself.

Here's a recap of every relation we found :

comp@expl :

For pronominal verbs i.e. verbs that can only be used with a relexive pronoun : s'évaporer

This also applies to verbs that change meaning if used with a reflexive pronoun : s'entendre

comp@pass :

For passive reflexive constructions : Les livres se vendent bien

For these two we chose to give the lemma "se" to the pronoun since it doesn't relfect any grammatical or semantic meaning

---

comp:obj :

For reflexive pronouns replacing direct object : On s'est regardées

Here we chose to give the lemma "le" to the pronoun

---

comp:obl :

For reflexive pronouns replacing oblique arguments : Il m'a dit

Here we chose to give the lemma "lui" to the pronoun

---

We haven't applied our rule regarding the Reflex feature yet but everything else should be ok Here's a request showing the changes (the corpus is updating as of now but it should be up to date soon enough) : http://universal.grew.fr/?custom=62a336b84f480

[perrier54]

I am not convinced that differences in syntactic function should justify differences in lemma. In SUD_French-GSD, we have the lemma se in all cases.