Closed esaruoho closed 5 years ago
Is there anything we would do as a result of this ticket @esaruoho ?
@amused you there?
more pastes
NKS isn't a plugin format in its own right, it uses the VST2 but
provides a means of integrating it tightly into NI keyboards and
Maschine. So there are no binaries here, just support files
(database entries, images, .json scripts, .nksf format presets and
previews).
If and when other issues are fixed hopefully those changes will
also improve the NKS version, provided no one makes fundamental
changes to the architecture that alter automation IDs.
As long as from the hosts POV it still appears as the same VST
and the automation IDs are all in the same order it should retain
param mappings and won't need redoing each time (in other
words pretty much the same constraints that would affect project
recall in hosts). Obviously if any new automatable features get
added then I might have to remake the template but I don't
expect that to be happening in the near future at least. Things
like MPE and resizing should make no difference.
from https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7268811#p7268811
Not sure how NKS is packaged - this is really user
developed unofficial NKS support, in most cases
when a plugin developer becomes part of NI's NKS
developer ecosystem they get access to the full SDK,
but us users have managed to figure out how 95% of it
works ourselves, we don't have the official support
from NI though.
As I said above several times now this is not a
seperate coded version of the plugin, just some
support files adding integration for NI hardware.
It would be nice if it was integrated into the
installers at some point but I have no idea how
you would do that. NI provide those tools to
official NKS partners via a SDK but user
developed NKS versions have tended to be
just created manually (often as in this case
collaboratively between members of the NI
user forums), no coding, no command lines,
just saving files, taking screenshots, creating
database entries. I have also said I have no
problem with a link going on Github to the
NKS files, but I'm not on Github myself and
wouldn't know how to create a command-line convertor.
here are the links that aMUSEd knocked together on KVR-audio forums:
info.txt attached: Info.txt
Surge NKS thing is 87mb so can't attach it here. ouch!
OK so this looks like a collection of ancillary assets to make the plugin work well on a particular bit of hardware that includes images and wav files. I don't think we want to check those into GitHub - I certainly don't and it seems the original user doesn't either.
My gut would be
1: Make sure the user includes the GPL 2: Ask the user to have regular pulls of the built AU and 3: Add a link to user documentation somewhere with a way to reach the user who built this and download, 4: then close this issue
but I'm glad to hear other points of view
OK so this looks like a collection of ancillary assets to make the plugin work well on a particular bit of hardware that includes images and wav files. I don't think we want to check those into GitHub - I certainly don't and it seems the original user doesn't either.
My gut would be
1: Make sure the user includes the GPL 2: Ask the user to have regular pulls of the built AU and 3: Add a link to user documentation somewhere with a way to reach the user who built this and download, 4: then close this issue
but I'm glad to hear other points of view
IMO we should make a Wiki page for this stuff. In all respect to what he did, the info.txt file is basically written chaos. Im currently reformatting it to be readable markdown do understand it.
since I have not the permissions to edit the wiki (and you can't make a pull request for it -_-), here's what I did: https://github.com/cyanit/surge/wiki/Surge-and-NKS
I didn't even know GitHub had a wiki!
I'd approve a PR for doc/SurgeAndNKS.md or whatever if you want to go that route and just make a markdown file in the doc directory.
There's another issue for what to do with doc that @esaruoho is looking at.
I wonder if @mkruselj has any thoughts here?
Usually NKS assets are supposed to be distributed along with the plugin, installed to required location(s) via the installer (and as such should be checked in the repo). I would love it to see Surge as an officially NKS supported plugin, which means it would be listed in Komplete Kontrol/Maschine in factory library section, rather than user library. This would alleviate the need for user digging through folders to install the assets, plus there are things that can be implemented plugin-side only, for which you would need NKS SDK.
I can ask around with NI peeps about getting you guys an SDK, AFAIK it's not a paid affair. If this goes through, Surge might be the first free plugin with in-depth NKS support, which would be both interesting and cool.
The only thing to note here is that NKS has no bearing on Linux platform, since Komplete Kontrol and Maschine are Win/macOS only.
Interesting and. Thank you
Before you ask no do you actually know how to use or test the plug-in api? I on!y ask because I don't and I don't want to bother ni if no one here can actually use the tool of course!
I will have to ask them about all that, since I've only developed Kontakt libraries with NKS integration, I don't have intimate knowledge of how is NKS integrated or tested when developing a plugin.
Didn't get much info so far, but one glaring thing that would need to be sorted out is that there has to be some sort of entity to which NI would sign a contract to supply the NKS SDK. So that entity would be "plugin developer", which is a bit tricky for open source software, right? I mean how would you prevent anyone from forking this repo and taking the NKS SDK along?
I am in Berlin for the whole next week so I can have more direct talks to NKS partnering team over a lunch or something. Will keep y'all posted.
Wow! It would be so cool to have a NI integration. As a komplete (kontrol) / Maschine user I'd love to be able to manage Surge right from my keyboard / maschine. Is there any progress or official documentation?
There's no progress. Since Surge Synth Team is not an actual legal entity, we cannot officially integrate NKS into Surge (NKS SDK is not open source), unfortunately. I am still going to see if I can make NI change their mind, especially since I actually work for them, but this is not a guarantee of success.
At any rate, anything aMUSEd did is as far as it gets for the time being.
@mkruselj Thanks for your quick reply and many thanks for your efforts at NI.
I was just building VST version of Surge for use with Komplete Kontrol and was mentally preparing myself for the effort of creating the required files and saving all the presets for the NKS support. Just wanted to add to this thread that I'm very happy to have found this thread with the NKS support by @aMUSEd
I also appreciate the effort by @mkruselj in helping out here.
Native Instruments should try to find a way of enabling open source to participate in NKS. In theory, this could be achieved by having all registered open source instruments using NI or a placeholder entity in place of a legal entity. At the minimum it would be great to get a statement from Native Instruments about this. Perhaps if there is some forum for open source VST developers this can be brought to NI through those channels, that way it would not just be a single developer.
Just thinking out loud here.
From my discussions with relevant persons at NI, enabling NKS for open source projects is not among their current priorities. Unfortunately.
TBH I am not sure if we will ever see the needle shifting from their side... One can only hope.
On kvr
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2gm4jtv6i101bbj/AAB__9m2i81cZIIPVPKX7axOa?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpb5s3g52kjyeil/Info.txt?dl=0