new gui skins, 3rd party skin support, and modulated reverb

[DarkFifiLaFume]

I was thinking that Surge should have new gui skins and get custom gui support to make Surge less outdated. Another request is that Surge should have a modulation effect in the reverb like Valhalla's reverb plugins has mod rate and mod depth. I was thinking that because the modulated reverb effect makes the sound more chorusy and would be good for making ambient textures.

[baconpaul]

Hi! We’ve actually re-done the skin to be zoomable in 1.6 but keeping the classic look and feel; we don’t really plan swappable skins until we get a stable release.

On the reverb: Can’t you just use one of the SLFOs to modulate any reverb parameter you want? I was able to modulate almost every reverb parameter using an SLFO just now. So set up an SLFO, double click on it, and pull the reverb parameter you want modulated. Using a square wave I was able to make a real mess of the reverbs :)

[DarkFifiLaFume]

nononono, you know the modulation tool in Valhalla VintageVerb that modulates the reverb pitch that makes it chorusy?

[baconpaul]

Nope! Can you hum a few bars? :)

I don't think the reverb in surge is that advanced. I guess the reason you can't just use the vintage verb is because you want the reverb in the toolchain right?

Anyway on UI I added #810 to explain the core concern and my plan if I were to tackle this.

[mortfell]

Hey @DarkFifiLaFume For the reverb modulation thing..... Surge is technically capable of doing this, since the delay in Surge has a "modulation" section, which just modulates the pitch. If you chain the reverb with "mix" all the way up and "predelay" all the way down, using the chorus preset "Chorus (using delay)" (also with the mix all the way up), you have a modulated reverb!

You also have the added benefit of using the delay length as a stereo pre-delay effect on the verb. The downside here is that the effect doesn't really work correctly if the "mix" on both effects isn't all the way up.....

@baconpaul how doable would it be to allow an option for Surge to send the output of Send FX1 into the input of Send FX2. That would allow us to make some "fx chains" like the idea i described above where a fully wet effect passes into another fully wet effect, but where we still have access to an unaffected "dry" sound.

An idea for how that could possibly function in the interface: The slider "FX1 Return" could have a right click menu option"Send FX1 to FX2" This would re-route FX1 into FX2 and change the function of the "FX1 Return" slider into a trim volume for the send level from FX1 -> FX2 , (instead of being a return volume to the main mix)

Not sure if this is way to convoluted, but I could see that being a neat feature.

[baconpaul]

Oh that’s a good visual way to do that routing sure. Would need to look in dsp code to see how easy it is to plumb through. I’m gonna open that ad a separate issuenok?

[mortfell]

sweet good idea! Thanks

[Godly75]

+1, just background and skinable knobs would be enough to make a huge change already. I'm willing to develop skins. See www.encountersmedia.be

[IsaakCode]

Would love to see 3rd party GUI skin support. Surge could really benefit from it, the dated layout is not as straightforward as most current pro synths are (see Hive, Serum for example).

[baconpaul]

Yup. https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/1117 we are working on it in 2020.

[SaxxonCreative]

Is there any chance of a dark chrome and white text skin? I love the surge use it all the time best sounds just the skin is my only suggestion

[sense-amr]

@itsmedavep PSSST?:) any skins .. brother..

[baconpaul]

Problem is less the skins and more the engine with which said skins would be applied, which still doesn’t exist, alas. Just to manage expectations. I’m debating what to do with my skinning plan and have lots of thoughts ... but not sure which bits of code I want to map to those thoughts yet or which of the code I have working I want to keep.

[SaxxonCreative]

Is there a chance of an ADD to FAVORITES option like a bookmark of your most used synths? Or am I missing something that is already there?

[sense-amr]

hmm you could save your patches in a FAVOURITES folder.. then access them from there knowing they are your favourites? i guess.. or it could be interesting to allow "*" favouriting in the save patch dialogue which automatically creates and saves them to a FAVOURITES dir.. what do you think @baconpaul and @esaruoho ?

[baconpaul]

You mean for the patch list you want to be able to favorite them and then have them show as a single folder or something? Seems like an OK idea sure! What I really want to do is make a proper patch browser with categories and author filtering and stuff... but no work being done on anything like that right no.

If a developer wanted to add a patch browser I have a sketch for how I would do it (code wise) in my head I would be happy to share. Similarly if you wanted to add favorites mechanism I could outline how I would write that code.

[SaxxonCreative]

yes was just a future thought for XI design

[sense-amr]

definitely a dynamic searchable browser kinda UI allowing search by category / creator .. etc.. would be good.. but at this stage its all able to be done yourself in how you set up your folders in /documents i guess.. but yeh if its not too hard to do would be nice to implement in future versions..

[sense-amr]

You mean for the patch list you want to be able to favorite them and then have them show as a single folder or something? Seems like an OK idea sure! What I really want to do is make a proper patch browser with categories and author filtering and stuff... but no work being done on anything like that right no.

If a developer wanted to add a patch browser I have a sketch for how I would do it (code wise) in my head I would be happy to share. Similarly if you wanted to add favorites mechanism I could outline how I would write that code.

we remember what happened last time i tried to write the code :) ..

[baconpaul]

Yeah! I just like to remind folks that they could ask their coding buddies to join the team if they really want something. :)

[sense-amr]

thats why i tagged @esaruoho in this .. since it was his area of interest and seemed to have some resources in this arena of coding UI shits..

but maybe he's too busy releasing music on Australian IDM labels :)

[Godly75]

About the skin, it would be already awesome if we could change a text file with the item color. Additionally replace images for the buttons and maybe background. Would that be so hard?

[Godly75]

About the favourites, there's already a category on top of the presets browser. Why is it there if it's not viewable in the browser? A search field with category selector would be handy also.

[baconpaul]

About the skin, it would be already awesome if we could change a text file with the item color. Additionally replace images for the buttons and maybe background. Would that be so hard?

Yes.

If you have pixel perfect replacements of the SVGs in the repo we can rebuild. But if you want to move anything, all the layout locations are buried in the wrong place in the C++.

If you are willing to do pixel perfect rebuild of the SVGs with different colors though, we could take the 20 or so in-code colors and move them to a file. We decided to not do that coding. If someone showed up with those pixel position exact SVGs though that may change my mind.

[baconpaul]

About the favourites, there's already a category on top of the presets browser. Why is it there if it's not viewable in the browser? A search field with category selector would be handy also.

That category field is what makes the menu organization when you RMB. Also we have put #625 into our potentials for 1.6.6 milestone.

[Godly75]

About the skin, it would be already awesome if we could change a text file with the item color. Additionally replace images for the buttons and maybe background. Would that be so hard?

Yes.

If you have pixel perfect replacements of the SVGs in the repo we can rebuild. But if you want to move anything, all the layout locations are buried in the wrong place in the C++.

If you are willing to do pixel perfect rebuild of the SVGs with different colors though, we could take the 20 or so in-code colors and move them to a file. We decided to not do that coding. If someone showed up with those pixel position exact SVGs though that may change my mind.

I'm willing to give it a try. Can you send me a pm?

[baconpaul]

Does GitHub have PMs? But hop on our slack if you want!

Basically: In this repo take a look at "assets/original-vector/SVG/exported"

about 95% of the UI comes from those graphics. The C++ code assumes exact sizes and pixel positions. So that's what we need to replicate!

[baconpaul]

Hey @Godly75 we spent some time this week thinking about skinning in general and after that I've sort of re-arranged my plans. We are going to aim for a simple skinning engine (far less ambitious than my original plan which I think wouldn't have worked) and I'm coding that now. So if you are serious about wanting to try to offer up a skin, perhaps waiting a couple of weeks and joining our slack would be two smart choices!

The work will still require making lots of SVGs, and some will still have the pixel-perfect constraint but the ability to change things will definitely be easier.

Your pushing on this is what really got me thinking about my plan again, so even if you end up not making a skin, I appreciate it!

[Godly75]

Hi @baconpaul , i see the skinning is making progress. I'd still love to jump in for help to create a first skin.

[baconpaul]

Yeah right now we still have the 'same pixel size' constraint but you can replace any and all o the SVGs at runtime.

If you grab the nightly you will see that there's a dark skin coming along.

the skin engine is a little undocumented but basically copy the resources dark.surge-skin to your documents/surge, rename it, restart surge and you should se it for edit. hop on slack with questions.

[sense-amr]

ok dark skin is interesting.. i dont mind it .. although as it is now i do feel there is less of a usable sense of the parameters.. they seem to be kinda floating now .. perceptibly .. i would think maybe a light grey low opacity .. to the existing colour over each of the areas where parameters are would work..

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 9:29 PM Paul notifications@github.com wrote:

Yeah right now we still have the 'same pixel size' constraint but you can replace any and all o the SVGs at runtime.

If you grab the nightly you will see that there's a dark skin coming along.

the skin engine is a little undocumented but basically copy the resources dark.surge-skin to your documents/surge, rename it, restart surge and you should se it for edit. hop on slack with questions.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/757#issuecomment-625771687, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALPGE6NDX6T7LOZOSIS7KTRQPUIRANCNFSM4G43SVVQ .

-- Best..

Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel ::

Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/unreleased-collection-1

Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/

Sense Music can be found here/

Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense

Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

[sense-amr]

sure it might clutter the screen a bit but for functionality and if done subtly i think it would help we are used to having a visual background assisting the perceptible depth of the parameters thats missing in this skin

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 2:49 PM Adam Raisbeck adam.raisbeck@gmail.com wrote:

ok dark skin is interesting.. i dont mind it .. although as it is now i do feel there is less of a usable sense of the parameters.. they seem to be kinda floating now .. perceptibly .. i would think maybe a light grey low opacity .. to the existing colour over each of the areas where parameters are would work..

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 9:29 PM Paul notifications@github.com wrote:

Yeah right now we still have the 'same pixel size' constraint but you can replace any and all o the SVGs at runtime.

If you grab the nightly you will see that there's a dark skin coming along.

the skin engine is a little undocumented but basically copy the resources dark.surge-skin to your documents/surge, rename it, restart surge and you should se it for edit. hop on slack with questions.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/757#issuecomment-625771687, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALPGE6NDX6T7LOZOSIS7KTRQPUIRANCNFSM4G43SVVQ .

-- Best..

Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel ::

Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/unreleased-collection-1

Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/

Sense Music can be found here/

Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense

Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

-- Best..

Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel ::

Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/unreleased-collection-1

Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/

Sense Music can be found here/

Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense

Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

[baconpaul]

So I'm going to close this issue since

1: skin is covered elsewhere 2: the new Reverb2 which is in the nightly and will be in 1.7 has a modulation support and 3: of course if you want to modulate other stuff you can just do so with an SLFO

So I think this issue is now basically either done or dup.

Thanks!

[jcmos]

Guys, this is a very powerful synth. It needs not only a new skin , but the whole user interface re-designed from scratch. It will be easier to do this than trying replacing everything with different skins and colors. This UI belongs to 15 years ago. We need one that makes this synth unique and modern in pair with the new synths coming up in 2020. Roll up your sleeves and make this happen. Cheers

[K0rrid0r]

As a user of this synth for the past 14 years i still hear new sounds every time i use it with the way it works, it's genius. How long have you used this synth for and are you aware of what an endeavour your request is to do?

[jcmos]

I think we have a great potential here and it would be a mistake and waste of time trying to make up the current skin. I understand this is a big request but think about it. This could become the best ever synth made with an awesome UI that is free. Why is so difficult to redesign the whole thing? We can link all functions, one by one to each graph and event of the new UI "with patience and good food". what do you think? Nothing is impossible, and we got the whole world available.

[baconpaul]

Would be happy to see a proposed design. the synth is super deep. but all ears for folks willing to roll up sleeves and do work.

So what are your ideas?

[sense-amr]

i think the new blue dark skin looks great..

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:08 AM jcmos notifications@github.com wrote:

I don't actually have a proposed design. I have been working as a Business Analyst with developers for many years, but I am not a programmer. I am just suggesting what the finished product should look it. Do we want to keep the current look? . or we want to make it attractive in pair with recent VST synth designs? In my opinion it look a bit outdated and it would be beneficial to come up with a totally different look. I could make a prototype of the user interface, but I am not a designer either. I am just trying to put ideas on the table. As a user of this fabulous synth, I miss a bit of user experience.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/757#issuecomment-650841851, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALPGEZS3AISO3V63NZ6KITRY7LPFANCNFSM4G43SVVQ .

-- Best..

Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel ::

Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/a-slow-but-sure-demise

Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/

Sense Music can be found here/

Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense

Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

[jcmos]

I heard of the blue skins a few times, but I cannot find a way to load it. is there a how to section?

[sense-amr]

[image: darkskin.jpg]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:02 AM jcmos notifications@github.com wrote:

I heard of the blue skins a few times, but I cannot find a way to load it. is there a how to section?

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/surge/issues/757#issuecomment-650850432, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALPGEZ2CQYMVL6XWPMI7DDRY7R2LANCNFSM4G43SVVQ .

-- Best..

Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel ::

Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/a-slow-but-sure-demise

Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/

Sense Music can be found here/

Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense

Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

[jcmos]

Sorry still cannot see the skin. Studio One Processional 4.6.2 crashes when I go to menu / open user data folder

[K0rrid0r]

Get the latest nightly to fit your system here. https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/releases/releases/tag/NIGHTLY

[jcmos]

[image: darkskin.jpg] … On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:02 AM jcmos @.***> wrote: I heard of the blue skins a few times, but I cannot find a way to load it. is there a how to section? — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#757 (comment)>, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALPGEZ2CQYMVL6XWPMI7DDRY7R2LANCNFSM4G43SVVQ . -- Best.. Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel :: Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/a-slow-but-sure-demise Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/ Sense Music can be found here/ Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

Get the latest nightly to fit your system here. https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/releases/releases/tag/NIGHTLY

thank you

[jcmos]

Sorry do you have for 64bit?

[sense-amr]

https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/releases/releases/download/NIGHTLY/Surge-NIGHTLY-2020-06-29-ad93457-Setup.exe

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:18 AM jcmos notifications@github.com wrote:

Sorry do you have for 64bit?

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-- Best..

Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel ::

Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/a-slow-but-sure-demise

Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/

Sense Music can be found here/

Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense

Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

[baconpaul]

that one has some bugs. https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/nightly is the url for the nightly. should have a new one in about 30 mins.

[jcmos]

thanks mate

[sense-amr]

why is there two links to the nightly's if the REAL one is .. https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/nightly

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:23 AM jcmos notifications@github.com wrote:

thanks mate

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-- Best..

Sense :: neural networks are formed when we allow ourselves to feel ::

Latest Video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Latest Album: https://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/album/a-slow-but-sure-demise

Sense videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/senseTUBE https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVmblQpiVaf36OOVPjYsR44be Sense FPV Videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91KJT-XwVma-ah4fjILEE61CRqMtXxZc

Sense Wordpress: https://senseaudio.wordpress.com/

Sense Music can be found here/

Music Listening / Licensing http://senseaudio.bandcamp.com/ http://sense.liquid-sky-berlin.com http://soundcloud.com/sense http://hearthis.at/sense

Discogs: http://discogs.com/artist/Sense

[baconpaul]

Both the main page and the nightly page link to the nightly. We update the website every time we build a new one. You can find it either at the very bottom of the main page or on that page, which is linked from the top, right now.

You shared a link to a particular nightly (like with a date and a hash) which will go away when the new one ships which is why I shared the other URL with the individual.