Future of the kit

[Callepo]

Hi, the kit has reached a point where it has more then enough feature's and simply does not need anything new. New stuff requested by players everyday which they can easily do themself is not benefiting anyone. and its simply put, stupid. The latest update is amazing, the single map which was only playable with about 200 ccu per map is not almost doubled at 350+ per map.. there was only 3 issues i could see.

1)the CSP doesnt sync position properly on the client, which makes client be different spot then server, and when u spawn alpaca.. ur player jumps to server location, there should be a check to bring the player back.. aka the rubberbanding we had before. its not being done now at all.

2) FPS Drop ( possible issue, grid manager) , with alot of players on the map, the clients have random fps drops u go from 70 to 20fps and freezes every like 2-3 seconds, i believe this is due to the grid updating.

3) killings monsters gives u a compile error sometimes and they dont respawn.

at this point the kit has no need for new updates, we should just fix the current bugs and issues. the kit is 40 bucks and has almost same or more individual features than other more expensive kits out there, some dont even come close to the caliber of this kit lol.. only 1 of them is even worth looking into.

We believe the kit price should also be increased, cuase $40 for this content.. is basically free..

Best Regards.

ps. i will tell everyone who wishes to donate something to use the coffee link u provided. @insthync

[sawcisson]

Yes i agree ! The kit has enough features. It's better to focus on polishing and debugging it instead.

I noticed a leak/loop with the audiosetter that caused a bunch of FPS drops & CPU delay aswell for example, or some scripts that were not the best for performance etc.

I think you can raise the price to 80$ easily.

[insthync]

Thank you for your suggestion, encouragement and donation :)

[Reinhartdelille]

Very welcome Suri ! Thank you for the great work on the patches. I concur with Cal and others on optimizing the kit enough as it is. If you need help getting organized or growing the business, I can also help, as business angel I help game companies being more successful.

And in the meantime we're upgrading Soundstorm.Online now to 1.63 and will prep some extra tests.

Kind regards Reinhart

[Gui205]

Hi, the kit has reached a point where it has more then enough feature's and simply does not need anything new. New stuff requested by players everyday which they can easily do themself is not benefiting anyone. and its simply put, stupid. The latest update is amazing, the single map which was only playable with about 200 ccu per map is not almost doubled at 350+ per map.. there was only 3 issues i could see.

1)the CSP doesnt sync position properly on the client, which makes client be different spot then server, and when u spawn alpaca.. ur player jumps to server location, there should be a check to bring the player back.. aka the rubberbanding we had before. its not being done now at all.

1. FPS Drop ( possible issue, grid manager) , with alot of players on the map, the clients have random fps drops u go from 70 to 20fps and freezes every like 2-3 seconds, i believe this is due to the grid updating.
2. killings monsters gives u a compile error sometimes and they dont respawn.

at this point the kit has no need for new updates, we should just fix the current bugs and issues. the kit is 40 bucks and has almost same or more individual features than other more expensive kits out there, some dont even come close to the caliber of this kit lol.. only 1 of them is even worth looking into.

We believe the kit price should also be increased, cuase $40 for this content.. is basically free..

Best Regards.

ps. i will tell everyone who wishes to donate something to use the coffee link u provided. @insthync

I'm not really agree with you, some really basic feature can't be done with devx like repair button for building, ladder system news type of vehicule who can be use only in water or ground, all those think can't be done by devx, and i have to manually rewrite them at each update ... That's really not big deal to add those feature. And this kit have 3D dimensionnal shooter, but still not possibility to make flyers enemy, you can swim, but you can't have sea creature. And those thing are really hard to do for us, because all the system is actually work on nav mesh so ...

But i'm agree on one point, the price is too low, this kit shoud be at 60$ minimum

[Reinhartdelille]

Hi @Gui205 I agree and disagree. I (and a bunch of others) believe we have ample features. If those features like you said would need to be added, then the effort should be made to make more DevExt or partial or inheritable classes, so it becomes easier to extend without touching the core code.

Also, you mention devext, but a LOT can be done through partial classing as well. We have added quite some functionality by adding our own eg BasePlayerCharacterEntity_OurOwnExtension.

So, it's great that you need all this, but maybe you can inform us on which classes need to be more extensible?

WarLAN

[Callepo]

you can only do so much with Devext lol.. but the kit doesnt consist of only devext.. u have multiple stuff to use to get to ur destination.. 1) Devexts, 2) Partials 3) Method Override's 4) Script Override's

One of these can always be done in whatever situation u find urself in .. trust me ... i know.. ive made entire systems in this kit down to the very core, created extra db entries and much more.. and they are all separated from the kit.. not 1 single code in the actual kit.. so yea.. the fact that u dont agree with me only means that u lack the skill required to do so. @Gui205

[Gui205]

you can only do so much with Devext lol.. but the kit doesnt consist of only devext.. u have multiple stuff to use to get to ur destination..

1. Devexts,
2. Partials
3. Method Override's
4. Script Override's

One of these can always be done in whatever situation u find urself in .. trust me ... i know.. ive made entire systems in this kit down to the very core, created extra db entries and much more.. and they are all separated from the kit.. not 1 single code in the actual kit.. so yea.. the fact that u dont agree with me only means that u lack the skill required to do so. @Gui205

Yes you maybe right, i have to look more on that.

[Callepo]

im not here to bash anyone tho, that was not the intention of this post.. im sure everyone agree's that they would rather have a solid base/ core where most of the things work as they should, without bugs instead of 100 features that dont work or arent completed.

And if someone thinks more is better, than u must be mentally challenged.

[Gui205]

im not here to bash anyone tho, that was not the intention of this post.. im sure everyone agree's that they would rather have a solid base/ core where most of the things work as they should, without bugs instead of 100 features that dont work or arent completed.

And if someone thinks more is better, than u must be mentally challenged.

No problem, you said something true, i dont take much attention on those possibility i start this kit since it come out, and make all my modification directly on the core, but one years later when i start to update the kit the problem start to come because i didn't separate my modification and now i make to much modification ... Im ok with that about the solid base/coren but some feature is still missing for me, like flyer and swimer enemy, did you do this system ?

[Callepo]

yea i agree, i have feature that i need too.. and one is the one u mentioned.. possibility to fly, im trying to make flying vehicles atm myself, if i manage to do it i will share

[Gui205]

yea i agree, i have feature that i need too.. and one is the one u mentioned.. possibility to fly, im trying to make flying vehicles atm myself, if i manage to do it i will share

It's cool thanks, but i already do both : https://gyazo.com/86fa152dc53908e8024e9cbc8eb1b621 https://gyazo.com/254c8c38332ee7617a08651f3579bc8d I can't share it because i do those modification on the core of kit so it's a real mess as i explain above.

But i still have some limitation for flyers they can attack only when they are landing, when they fly they can't attack

For the swimer it's easier because they can only swim the biggest thing was to limit the bounds of the area where they can swim or not to don't get stuck in the terrain or out of the water

[LordPhrozen]

I sort of agree here as well, focus should be on bugfix, at least for the time being.

[Fallen01]

The features mean nothing really UMMORPG proved that. You can have a list of features and still have a crap kit. In truth the people demanding these features should not even be pushing the future of the kit, because they are simply trying to get the features for their game without any consideration to the big picture. I did not buy this kit for suri to make my game. DevExt and partials are way more important, bringing with them the power to add your own features, which is the real point. This is not to say that I dont think its great we have so many features, but thats just icing on the cake, it shouldnt ever be the focus for the future. That said the most important thing of all is stability and performance of the kit which should come before EVERYTHING, because what good is a kit that cant deliver on its intended purpose no matter how many features it has. Thats exactly the trap UMMORPG laid isnt it? For you people who want features, Im not hating on you but that should come last, not first.

[Fallen01]

So many things are more important then new features, like comprehensive documents, tutorials, and videos. Truth is if people better knew how to use the kit they would probably care more about partials and devexts then features like most people you could consider advanced kit users I guess.

[Fallen01]

Also if were being really serious about the future of the kit you cant even have this discussion without talking about moving the server out of Unity. If this kit had a stand alone server that could run more threads then 1 per map server I for one would rejoice! Having only one thread per server is a serious limitation and is perhaps the most serious problem the kit has. I would rate that way higher then features, but still below bug fixes. I didnt set out to bash anyone, but the truth often offends people and for that Im sorry, but thats my 10 cents!

[sawcisson]

I agree with Fallen at 100%

[Fallen01]

I was expecting Hate Mail sawcisson, but I can live with love, lol! <3

[LordPhrozen]

Performance being the highest priority is something I would strongly push for. Its one thing to modify a well made base product, its another completely different story to try and modify a base product and address performance out of the box.

If new features are truly desired I would love to see them as some sort of paid "add-on". With a focus on core performance.

[sawcisson]

You really did spammed my emails ahaha

[insthync]

I can make the new project which its server-side will be written outside Unity (may use .NET 5), it won't have but I have to rewrite it all. Characters may not able to move by WASD+jump because I would use only NavMesh for movement. It sounds good?

For the old one highest priority is bug fixing and performance improvement :)

[Fr-Coder]

The kit is great as is. CCU are enough for every maps (we can reach 200-300 CCU for each maps), only bug fixes is needed, I agree with @Fallen01.

[moepi2k]

I can make the new project which its server-side will be written outside Unity (may use .NET 5), it won't have but I have to rewrite it all. Characters may not able to move by WASD+jump because I would use only NavMesh for movement. It sounds good?

For the old one highest priority is bug fixing and performance improvement :)

what does that mean? do you want to abond this kit and start with a new one?

[insthync]

No, I still develop it, there is no reason to abandon it. Just saying that I can do server-side without Unity but it will have some limitations. That is it.

[Reinhartdelille]

Guys, maybe it would be good to sit together in a conference call or so with some people that have invested heavily in the kit, and discuss how we can work together to help out Suri, as well make sure we have a good roadmap for this great product !!!

I'm also willing to invest time and even money to help out if necessary.

Suri, we strongly believe in the product, let's make it a success together!

[moepi2k]

Is that not a too big task? I mean we already made stresstests and the kit can handle 200+ players on a map. Thats enough.i mean 95% of all ppls that will ever release a mmo with this kit or with other kits are doing this as a hobby and will not have that big community to reach the limits of 200 ccu/map. The kit is great how it is, focus should be bugfixing and make it stable. No more features. There are enough features even for non coders to create a game. Ppls who cant code will always find something they want in theier games and create a new git report. But hey, you should focus on the important things :)

Basics should work like in most mmos these days like csp, lag compensation mechanics. Then start fixing all other things

You made a great job 🙌🙌🙌👍👍👍❤️

[Fallen01]

I can make the new project which its server-side will be written outside Unity (may use .NET 5), it won't have but I have to rewrite it all. Characters may not able to move by WASD+jump because I would use only NavMesh for movement. It sounds good?

For the old one highest priority is bug fixing and performance improvement :)

Actually that sounds great, but why cant Navmesh use WASD controls? I mean I get Jump...

[Fallen01]

Is that not a too big task? I mean we already made stresstests and the kit can handle 200+ players on a map. Thats enough.i mean 95% of all ppls that will ever release a mmo with this kit or with other kits are doing this as a hobby and will not have that big community to reach the limits of 200 ccu/map. The kit is great how it is, focus should be bugfixing and make it stable. No more features. There are enough features even for non coders to create a game. Ppls who cant code will always find something they want in theier games and create a new git report. But hey, you should focus on the important things :)

Basics should work like in most mmos these days like csp, lag compensation mechanics. Then start fixing all other things

You made a great job 🙌🙌🙌👍👍👍❤️

While i agree he is doing a great job I disagree that the kits development should be driven by the people who wont even use it to produce a game. If the number of people who will actually use it for its intended purpose is 5% then their voices are way more important then the 95%. Its fine if people want to use this kit as a childs play thing, but some of us are more interested in its intended purpose. An External Server even with limitations as an optional set up sounds fantastic! Also I think your kinda wrong about that 95% half of whom have picked my brain repeatedly to make an open world environment only to have the reality of one thread per server crash down upon them. This could be a solution to that, more threads could easily lead to open world environments. I think thats good for everyone 95% and 5% alike.

[Fallen01]

That said if your happy with the kit as it is thats great, but im guessing the so called 5% will be delighted by the idea of an external server, we can both be happy, lol. <3

[MostHated]

I like the idea of having a separate client and server. This separation can make it much easier to find bugs, optimize existing systems, as well as implement new systems. If you wanted a server-side-only system, you could implement it much more easily without having to worry if the code you just added/changed is tied into an existing client-side system, etc.

Using a non-unity executable for the server side is one possibility, but also, separation could occur between just the client and current server becoming two separate projects. Server-side would not need any textures, models, etc. It would only need the collider information from the models and terrain so that physics could act upon them. This would reduce the size and memory footprint of the serve executables down substantially. You could then disable all rendering, lighting, basically everything but the minimum the server needs to run, which would then also greatly reduce unnecessary cpu cycles being wasted on systems which are of no use to a dedicated server.

For the separate external server, there are options there, too. Unity's physics aren't a requirement either. A third-party library could be used, such as Bepu Physics or one of the various others, just like how LiteNet is used for networking both client and server-side. Granted, that would be a pretty decent undertaking, but would probably end up yielding the most gains in terms of performance/scalability and customization.

There are many options, but all of them require time and effort. I personally feel that separating the client and server into two separate projects will provide the greatest reward for the least amount of effort, and still allow for full functionality, while also helping to find lingering bugs and optimizations. Once that is completed, that is/was already a big step toward allowing the use of a fully external non-unity based server, as most of that work would have been required in the first place.

That is just my two dogecoins worth of input.

[Fashtas]

I'm a bit late to the discussion (Lost track of time!) and there is a lot to read and digest! Just a few points...

1) I too feel the kit price could be increased, I've seen a lot of other add-ons with a tiny percent of functionality of the Kit going from $40 to $80 over the last few years with very little extra development.

2) It's up to the developer to feel when they are happy to stop adding features. Honestly if features had stopped like a year ago it STILL would be an amazing product. I know I don't need "more" at this point. Features added from now really based off what Suriyun wants to do with their own project and what features that needs.

3) A separate server may be a good idea, simply because Unity has the limits mentioned by many above. However there is a lot of varying users using the Kit (Hobbyists, developers and then broken down into Single player/MMO/Survival... hard to say how many would gain out of a stand along engine though of course for MMO developers it would be fantastic) (For example, personally at the moment I am only aiming at single player/small survival type multiplayer )