enhancement: Improve awards from persuaded crowd - picked up items

[mefistotelis]

Currently, the persuaded people only give a per-person sum after a mission.

Besides that, the credits should be altered based on what the people have with them:

• If there are any money cases, the full amount should be given to the player after mission
• For weapons, a percentage of their value should be given (ie. 10%? 25%?)

[mefistotelis]

Maybe weapons should be also transferred from persuaded crowd to player agents?

[Moburma]

The only thing I would say is that there are obviously balance implications for this, it needs to be considered how much it would change the game and its difficulty by making as a default option. I'd imagine by the time e.g. plasma lances are common that this would hugely increase the potential amount of money the player would get, I don't know how this influx of cash would affect research etc.

[mefistotelis]

by the time e.g. plasma lances are common that this would hugely increase the potential amount of money

Have you ever been in a situation where at Plasma Lance stage you had any issues with cash?

Also, we did fixed the research bug which made some items researched at fraction of the cost. So late game balance was already affected.

But yes, I agree this change would affect the balance.

EDIT: The first part is now implemented:

If there are any money cases, the full amount should be given to the player after mission

[geist22]

I assume you'll want to make this configurable through ini files?

For weapons, you could just flat out start with a value of 100% (that means 100% of the sell value, which is 50% of the base price). We can assume that after a mission, persuaded non-agent individuals are brought back with your agents to HQ where they're relieved of the equipment they carry which is then sold. Meanwhile, agents that will end up in your cryo chambers will just take what they carry with them. Agents are capped at 32, so any persuaded agent after that is lost and would have his equipment sold too. Also, new equipment should unlock research.

The most you'll get out of this is lots of Pulse Lasers & Electron Maces during the middle game. With new research costs, you'll need more money anyway. and without you could disable it for balance reasons, though I think it still makes sense to keep what your subjects carry.

While we're on the subject of persuasion, I have one more thing that's always been on my mind: Zealots don't count as agents. When EuroCorp gets the Persuadertron 2, you can persuade zealots. Zealots are like the church equivalent of agents, they have the same health and require the same amount of points and energy for persuasion (I think?) as agents. But they don't get added to your cryo champers like agents do, which never made sense to me. So they're basically just better policemen and I never found much reason to persuade them, since killing enemies is usually much easier.

[mefistotelis]

I assume you'll want to make this configurable through ini files?

Yes, the percentage should be configurable.

We can assume that after a mission, persuaded non-agent individuals are brought back with your agents to HQ where they're relieved of the equipment they carry which is then sold. Meanwhile, agents that will end up in your cryo chambers will just take what they carry with them.

Yep. makes sense as a story behind it.

Though I don't want the persuasion to become an overpowered tactic. It's arguably already the best approach, as it allows you to gather huge firepower. If the monetary gain is too large, it would no longer make sense to do any mission without persuasion.

Agents are capped at 32, so any persuaded agent after that is lost and would have his equipment sold too.

Hm, yes, good point. I did not took the agents into consideration. The agents acquisition will have to be moved after gaining funds from briefcases, but before gaining funds from weapons.

Also, new equipment should unlock research.

I can't see such mechanics currently in the code, but I'm pretty sure found weapons are unlocking research. Will search for it.

Zealots are like the church equivalent of agents, they have the same health and require the same amount of points and energy for persuasion (I think?) as agents.

Yep. And when persuaded, they only give 1 persuasion power, like civilians. Even Unguided are better at that. The high priests do give 5 points though, same as agents.

But (Zealots) don't get added to your cryo champers like agents do, which never made sense to me.

The game lore does explain that they're hard to handle due to the self-destruct mechanism. But it's true it makes little sense to persuade them. Isn't that balancing the field a bit, decreasing rewards from persuasion-based tactics?

Maybe instead of being added as agents, they should provide other gains? Ie.

• Providing research boost on Zealot-like weapons
• Allowing to unlock "netscan" for free on a next mission
• Just providing more money than other persuadees

[geist22]

Though I don't want the persuasion to become an overpowered tactic. It's arguably already the best approach, as it allows you to gather huge firepower. If the monetary gain is too large, it would no longer make sense to do any mission without persuasion.

Is it? I've never really considered it overpowered. I'd gather a large group of civilians in a mission like EuroCorp 14 where you get a ton of free weapons from the unguided attack on a church base, and you can use them to quickly destroy the flying vehicles, but the moment they crash down, the majority of your followers are dead. Unless you gather a bunch of high-quality followers, let's say policemen or better, which itself can be quite a challenge, I've never seen it as more than a temporary, short-lived increase in firepower.

I can't see such mechanics currently in the code, but I'm pretty sure found weapons are unlocking research. Will search for it.

What I meant was that when you pick up a new weapon with an agent, it will be unlocked for research, but will it also be unlocked if a follower carries it? I've never tested it, but I doubt it does. When a follower manages to pick up a weapon that I wanted, I usually just kill them by blowing up a nearby building so I can get the weapon with one of my agents.

The game lore does explain that they're hard to handle due to the self-destruct mechanism. But it's true it makes little sense to persuade them. Isn't that balancing the field a bit, decreasing rewards from persuasion-based tactics?

I had forgotten about that, if the lore explains it then it's okay. Counting them as agents could potentially have a lot of balance implications. The syndicates use mainly militia while agents are relatively uncommon, but the church uses zealots for everything, so balance-wise zealots are more like militia even if they're as strong as agents. Increasing monetary reward i.e. 2000 instead of the 1000 for agents sounds good, though I'd leave the defaults at what they are in the original game and leave changing values at the discretion of the user.

[mefistotelis]

What I meant was that when you pick up a new weapon with an agent, it will be unlocked for research, but will it also be unlocked if a follower carries it?

Currently there is no checking of follower weapons. I added checking for their carried briefcases. What I meant is I do not know where in code the original mechanic of unlocking research is implemented.

I had forgotten about that, if the lore explains it then it's okay.

I actually can't find the quote in game translations.

I remember there being a story that a loss or vital signs causes Church implants to implode, and that is why Syndicate had trouble figuring out the Church tech.

Maybe that's from manual or the Prima guide?

[geist22]

I actually can't find the quote in game translations.

I remember there being a story that a loss or vital signs causes Church implants to implode, and that is why Syndicate had trouble figuring out the Church tech.

Maybe that's from manual or the Prima guide?

Found this, from EuroCorp mission 7 briefing:

Additional: Study of the Indoctrinator components you recovered from Phoenix has revealed how the Church of the New Epoch gains converts. The cultists' device contains Utopia command-compatible transceiver circuitry. In other words, our enemy has something similar in function to our Persuadertron. Every component is made of a memory plastic which instantly bio-degrades when a zealot's lifesign sensor stops working. This is why we have never found anything on the bodies of cultists, which would have accounted for their power of persuasion. With further study, our R&D staff expect to design a more effective Persuadertron for us, one which would work on zealots.

Though this sounds more like it's about the church's version of the Persuadertron, the Indoctrinator, and that it gets destroyed when the wielder dies, and not about the implants they use to keep their followers under control.

[mefistotelis]

Though this sounds more like it's about the church's version of the Persuadertron

That's the correct quote, I clearly remembered it wrong.

[mefistotelis]

Percentage of persuaded crowd weapons cost can now be collected after mission - PersuadedPersonWeaponsSellCostPermil configures that.

Things still not done:

• Selling / moving equipment of agents which are not added to ranks due to cryo chamber capacity
• Moving equipment in general - currently all weapons can only be sold

Also not sure how the weapons transfer should be resolved - a question after a mission, asking to either sell or transfer? Or a switch in options? Ability to transfer the weapons would also mean these particular weapons should be sold at normal sell price (I imagine the PersuadedPersonWeaponsSellCostPermil will typically be set to less than 500).