Backend interface: Which browsers should it target?

[DavidOliver]

As Symphony Next will obviously be a while in the making, we may be in the pleasant (and sadly not-more-frequent for many of us!) situation of being able to target currently modern, or maybe even near-future, versions of browsers for the backend interface as opposed to browsers such as IE 9 which can really hold things back.

This could affect decisions made on things such as:

• CSS layout methods (e.g., Flexible Box Layout, which is stabilised specs-wise and the awesomes)
• lots of other CSS considerations
• use of HTML 5 form stuff
• HTML 5 appcache?

So how should we be thinking in terms of browser support, and what recent HTML and CSS features should we assume support for?

I suggest this is a brilliant opportunity to make development and maintenance simpler and quicker by not pandering to what will be out-of-date browsers in a year or so.

[lewiswharf]

CSS is the language every web designer understands.

I don't feel this is a valid argument. Everything new and improved must be learned.

SASS or LESS should be decided by those doing the UI work.

[nilshoerrmann]

So this leaves @DavidOliver, @nils-werner, @johannahoerrmann and myself with the decision. Johanna and I normally don't use a preprocessor for our projects but we evaluated both LESS and SASS when preparing Factory. SASS was we one we felt more comfortable with.

[DavidOliver]

I thought we already agreed on that :)

:D Okay, it's agreed then. I wanted to make sure.

Re. pre-processors, I agree with @designermonkey - they save so much time (once you've got over the little speed bump of setting it up) and make things immeasurably more maintainable.

SASS or LESS should be decided by those doing the UI work.

+1 ;-)

[DavidOliver]

@nilshoerrmann, I use Sass so far.

[bernardodiasc]

I'll start putting browsers minimum requirements clauses in contracts... In this right moment I think some client is trying to access a beta website with some old motherfucker IE =(

I'm using Less here, but I know Sass is better. Less was so easy to make it work (with lessc)...

[lewiswharf]

@johannahoerrmann and myself

You two share a single vote! lol

[lewiswharf]

SASS vs LESS.

[nilshoerrmann]

You two share a single vote! lol

Hey, we are married, not the same person. We have two votes! Ha, let's see where that leads us to …

[iwyg]

You are a "We"

[jensscherbl]

BTW. I know it's no up to me, but can we just get rid of the dropshadow and shiny stuff?

I agree and personally like the currently trendy "flat" or "metro" designs a lot (if done right). But also keep in mind that being too extreme in both directions is bad.

Sometimes it just makes sense (even in a flat design) to have subtle shadows or other hints to distinguish certain elements or interactions.

While I'm a big fan of Microsoft's new design direction, somtimes they've taken it a step too far in Windows (Phone) 8, making stuff a little difficult to use or leading to visual clutter, even though everything is flat and minimalistic.

Letterpress, again, is a perfect example. It is indeed, mostly flat, particularly compared to the visual aesthetics of most iOS games and apps. But Letterpress does have Z-axis depth: when you drag a letter tile, it pops up and has a drop shadow under it until you place it. There’s nothing “flat” about that. What Letterpress rejects is not depth, but depth as mere decoration. The visual “raising” of a tile as you play it is a natural visual cue, a way of emphasizing what it is you’re moving.

From http://daringfireball.net/2013/01/the_trend_against_skeuomorphism

[iwyg]

I know flat design is currently en vogue. But It's actually bringing the meaning of design back to the web: communication through structure.

[iwyg]

http://pinterest.com/warmarc/flat-ui-design/

[nilshoerrmann]

You are a "We"

We haz 2 votez.

[lewiswharf]

We haz 2 votez.

I just checked with my wife. She said 1 vote and it's all @johannahoerrmann LOLz

[lewiswharf]

I know flat design is currently en vogue.

Everthing old becomes new again at some point.

But It's actually bringing the meaning of design back to the web: communication through structure.

Agree. Its correct for the medium because it emphasizes structure and content.

[bernardodiasc]

I just checked with my wife. She said 1 vote and it's all @johannahoerrmann LOLz

+1

Wise to agree!

[michael-e]

We haz 2 votez.

Dreamer. 1 vote per family, that's the rule.

[nilshoerrmann]

I just checked with my wife. She said 1 vote and it's all @johannahoerrmann LOLz

__lol\ Don't let Johanna hear that! Can someone please deactivate email notifications for her account?

[jensscherbl]

I know flat design is currently en vogue. But It's actually bringing the meaning of design back to the web: communication through structure.

Sure thing. As already mentioned, I'm a big proponent, but it has to be done right. I'd opt for an almost flat design.

Gradients in Almost Flat Design

For the most part, these interfaces stick to the flat design principles of flat colors, no drop shadows, and use of color to encourage specific user actions (e.g. red compose button in Gmail). But if you look closely, that compose button does have a slight gradient. It’s a gradient that says, “Hey, I’m a button you can press,” and not “Woah! I look like I’m made from candy! Oh and you can press me too.” Subtle affordance is a big component of Almost Flat Design and gives it a critical advantage over true flat design.

Drop Shadows in Almost Flat Design

Almost Flat Design doesn’t ignore the concept of depth. Instead, depth is used to support comprehension of the interface. But, just like gradients, this can be done in a subtle way and still allow for separation of information along the z-axis.

From http://www.matthewmooredesign.com/almost-flat-design/

[iwyg]

and we need circles!!! Lots of them!

[nilshoerrmann]

Let's just design, right?

Main question discussed with agreement. A lot of other things discussed. Closing this issue.

[iwyg]

just for reference http://www.millionentausch.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/banksy-most-things-look-better-when.jpg

[nilshoerrmann]

Wenn der Designer mal nichts weiß, malt er einen Kreis – ja, ja, ja :)

[michael-e]

:+1:

[iwyg]

Naja, bei uns hieß das, wenn einem nix einfällt, macht man nen Veraluf.

[bernardodiasc]

what do you think of AngularJS?

[edit] ops, this issue is already closed... there will be some discussion about it?

[nilshoerrmann]

It's interesting but what should we use it for?

Am 17.04.2013 um 17:38 schrieb Bernardo Cruz notifications@github.com:

what do you think of AngularJS?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[bernardodiasc]

I just play a bit with Angular, make it too easy to manipulate DOM. I imagine this on Data Source Editor and mainly on Section Editor.

[jurajkapsz]

This issue is way closed, but just to couple: I love to use SASS with Compass, initially on behalf of the Foundation, but I also went for only build-in mixins from Compass itself (normalization, css3 a.s.f.), added to test out Bourbon, and for the grid Zen Grids as of now, to be far more lightweight and independent for the change. The grid works down to IE8 and its rather elegant to use, semantic too. Besides that I create some simple mixins as needed, its nice to do with SASS. I should be doing a responsive project in the upcomming weeks with this setup (with Symphony that is too) and will want to share it in Symphony's showcase, if all goes well.

I initialy came to CSS preprocesors through LESS, which primary helped me to get quite fast in love with this approach, but went for SASS afterwards.

[jensscherbl]

I initialy came to CSS preprocesors through LESS, which primary helped me to get quite fast in love with this approach, but went for SASS afterwards.

Currently switching as well.