Nixie “Schedules” start/end timer settings not responding as expected

[rock-crusher]

Issue: In the nixie scheduler when setting the on/off times the minutes are not changeable while in the 12:00pm hour. When you try, it automatically reverts back to 12:00pm. For instance, if you set the time as 12:37pm the system automatically resets the time back to12:00pm for some reason. All the other hours 1-11 am or pm you can set any minute you desire.
I’m sure it’s just something I’m doing wrong. Any Ideas?

[rstrouse]

Power down the pi and restart it.

After it boots run the following commands. pm2 stop njsPC pm2 stop REM cd ~/megabas-rpi git pull sudo make install cd ~/megabas-rpi/update ./update 0 cd ~/megabas-rpi megabas 0 rs485wr 0 9600 1 0 1

If all this works continue on with number 8 above.

[rstrouse]

I updated the call above for sudo make install

[rock-crusher]

You are the man!!! Works beautifully! Can't thank you enough! I'm going to play around with this now, should be loads of fun! Question, How can I go about saving all this (everything on the sd card) to my computer in case something goes wrong. I wouldn't want to go through all this again if I didn't have to.

[rstrouse]

Well Ahab got his whale this time but only after getting tangled up in the harpoon line!

You can use the SD card copier that comes with the Raspberry Pi OS or create an image file on a USB drive. Here are some instructions. https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/back-up-raspberry-pi-as-disk-image

[rock-crusher]

Well, I've been having a good time playing around with this controller setting up circuits, valves, circuit groups, schedules etc, but I do have some questions.

1. I cant seem to get the heater to turn on with the pool, or spa. I have the heater set-up and assigned to a relay and also that same relay enabled in REM. Shouldn't the heater automatically turn on when the spa is activated?

2. Is there a way to start a scheduled event without having to wait until the next day when it's scheduled to turn back on? For example, by simply clicking an event button the timed schedule starts and runs to the end?

3. Is there a simple way to create several timing macros and have them be executed by clicking an event button? For example, the event button is clicked and the timed events are initiated in sequential order until timed out.

4. Intellibrite lights, how do you set-up the relay commands for changing the colors etc? I have the Intellibrite light set-up in the Light Group with the color set as Cyan. It shows up in the lights section of the dash panel, but when it is turned on the relay only clicks on once and that is it, it doesn't send the appropriate on/off/on sequences to the relay in order to control the light for the Cyan color. It doesn't matter which color you chose, the relay only switches on once, no cycling on/off of the relay.

Thanks again for all your help!

[rstrouse]

1. Do you have a Water Temperature feed to Nixie. If you do not then it will not turn on the heater. Nixie will act as a Thermostat so when the temperature falls below the requested setpoint it will turn on the heater when the temperature is reached it will shut the heater off.

2. There are 2 types of schedules. If you create a schedule for a circuit or feature it will automatically turn on at the time of the schedule. If you manually override it by turning said circuit off then it will go off. However, if you turn it back on within the scheduled period it will then finish out the schedule. Then there are egg timers. Egg timers are set up so that when a circuit or feature is manually engaged it will only run for the amount of time on the timer. This is very handy for things that you don't want to be left on.

3. You do not execute schedules you execute the circuit. The schedules take care of themselves.

4. IntelliBrite lights are baked into the circuit relays. So if you set the circuit type to IntelliBrite it will allow you to change the theme. Light groups operate differently, these are a collection of individual lighting circuits. So if you are expecting to set Cyan using the sAM colors tab you may be a bit disappointed. If flat out sucks. It is a crap shoot in IntelliTouch and IntelliCenter whether you actually get the sequence to work every time. At some point I am going to re-sequence these lights manually. However, the Themes should work just fine on the individual lights.

[rock-crusher]

Hi rstrouse, Thank you once again for the clarification. Sorry if I'm not using the correct lingo when trying to ask my questions.

Ok, for question 1, no, I do not have temp sensors connected (makes sense) so that explains that. I thought maybe the relay would kick on and then it would rely on the actual heater sensors/control panel to determine if it would fire-up or not. Thinking about it, I guess it could be set-up in a roundabout way like that, but why would you want to, right?

You know, my heater (MasterTemp 400) has the RS485 connection in its circuit board. I understand this is new just this year 2021. Will this controller be able to accommodate the RS485 connection for heater control rather than using the fireman's switch?

My take away from your answer to my questions 2 & 3 are no, it cant be done. I would just like to be able to start one of my schedules at random by simply clicking one button and watch the entire sequence of timed scheduled events take place. Apparently this is not possible, ie; you must wait 24hrs for the schedule to restart on its own. I do however understand the egg timers, but these alone wont achieve what i'm looking to do.

4. IntelliBrite lights are baked into the circuit relays. So if you set the circuit type to IntelliBrite it will allow you to change the theme.

Yes, I have done this, thanks, I just didn't understand the Light group part, kept getting errors and didn't seem to work.

[rstrouse]

You know, my heater (MasterTemp 400) has the RS485 connection in its circuit board. I understand this is new just this year 2021. Will this controller be able to accommodate the RS485 connection for heater control rather than using the fireman's switch?

I just added the initial code to control the MasterTemp RS485 for Nixie yesterday evening. I am waiting on another user to give me some message returns from the heater to finish it off.

Yes, I have done this, thanks, I just didn't understand the Light group part, kept getting errors and didn't seem to work.

Light groups especially the SAm lighting (the spot where you define a sequence) is really lame. When Spectrum came up with this protocol the idea was to manage a color wheel. The color wheel would rotate in front of the light source until the desired color was achieved. To be fair the switch clicky thing was a remarkable way to achieve some level of control over this since moving a color wheel on a servo was slow anyway. Unfortunately, this stupid protocol stuck to this day with no possibility of it going away any time soon.

I can't fault Pentair on this one because every major manufacturer implemented their lighting this way and have not given up on the switch clicky thing. It takes a full minute for the lights to respond using this protocol using only the 3 pool lights in my pool. Then it is a crap shoot as to whether the lights sequence as I have defined them. Bear in mind this is not a Nixie thing or an IntelliCenter thing it is baked into the light fixture.

I have some ideas to make this better than the Pentair implementation so when I get time I will have a look. For now I would not try to do much with the SAm mode lighting. I have spent hours using IntelliCenter and IntelliTouch to try to create an effect. Bear in mind I have a two full DMX universes for landscape lighting and I have spent less time sequencing that successfully than failing at IntelliBrite.

If you want to understand where these guys were coming from this old marketing video will give you some perspective. Unfortunately, IntelliBrite, ColorLogic, and Jandy WaterColors all implement the protocol of the SAm light. Even after we got better LED performance. When my 5 IntelliBrites fail I will gut them and pop a DMX decoder in them. Then they will be able to go to the music like the rest of the yard. Did I mention that it is lame? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3SlNbylXnA

[rock-crusher]

Hi rstrouse,

I just added the initial code to control the MasterTemp RS485 for Nixie yesterday evening. I am waiting on another user to give me some message returns from the heater to finish it off.

That's awsome, please give a heads-up when completed.

this old marketing video will give you some perspective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3SlNbylXnA

Lol... it's funny how they bagged on Hayward for using Led lights, now they are using them too!

Any benefit using the 120v over the 12v version, or vice versa? How many 12v lights can be run on a single xformer?

Another question (sorry), Using an IC40 with this controller the xformer would connect to the "Filters" circuit relay for power, yes? If this is correct, then when spa is turned on, and/or pool the IC40 will come on as well. That said, when in spa mode, is there a way for the IC40 to reduce its percentage of output? Via RS485 connection?

Thank you.

[rstrouse]

That's awsome, please give a heads-up when completed.

Will do

Any benefit using the 120v over the 12v version, or vice versa? How many 12v lights can be run on a single xformer?

The benefit to 120v lights is simply the elimination of transformers for each light you want to control individually. That being said, you should look at setting up zones rather than trying to control the them individually given the mediocre control you get with IntelliBrite. So I finally rewired all mine so that the pool lights are controlled in one zone, spa lights in another and MagicStream in yet another. Trying to keep the 4 IntelliBrites 5G in the pool in sync drove me insane. That being said I am glad I pulled 120v lights individually to the pad.

Pentair recommends no more that 3 5G on a single 300W Intermatic Transformer. Each draws about 70W and this leaves a little headroom for the transformer.

Another question (sorry), Using an IC40 with this controller the xformer would connect to the "Filters" circuit relay for power, yes? If this is correct, then when spa is turned on, and/or pool the IC40 will come on as well. That said, when in spa mode, is there a way for the IC40 to reduce its percentage of output? Via RS485 connection?

All of your assumptions are correct you wire the IC40 transformer to the Filter relay so that it comes on when the pool or spa is turned on. Nixie supports 1 setpoint for each body defined in the controller so there is a separate setpoint for pool mode and one for spa mode. The RS485 signal will change IC40 to whichever body is selected.

[rock-crusher]

Hi again, I have been experimenting with the valves and such, but haven't been able to get the "pump off during valve action" to take place. The box is checked for pump off during valve action, but there is no delay in the pump when say the Spa is turned on. The pump just fires right up with no delay at the same time the valve actuators are turning. What am I missing here, or isn't that the way it works?

[rstrouse]

We have not implemented any delays for Nixie yet. Unless you have deadhead or hammer positions (which you should not with intake/return) this feature should probably never be turned on. We will be implementing it though.

[rock-crusher]

Ok, I was just trying things out and seeing how everything works. I actually thought that was a good option to have since it would be easier on the internal valve seal not having to rotate under pressure. That was always my thought anyways. I have new Jandy Never Lube 2"-2-1/2" 3-way CPVC valves with the Intermatic actuators I'll be installing. Are these any good and will they be perfectly OK rotating them while the pump is running at 3,450 rpm?

Is the heater cool-down delay in play?

[rstrouse]

I have new Jandy Never Lube 2"-2-1/2" 3-way CPVC valves with the Intermatic actuators I'll be installing. Are these any good and will they be perfectly OK rotating them while the pump is running at 3,450 rpm?

Those will work just fine and they will be fine for valve rotation at RPM. The valves move slowly and do not hammer as the rotate although after years of dealing with cracked cams and fishing endpoints I prefer the IntelliValves. I replaced or fixed every CV24 actuator on my pool at least twice over the years. Since I replaced all 7 with IntelliValve 3 years ago I haven't had a failure since.

Is the heater cool-down delay in play?

No it is not yet. In fact, if you hook your MasterTemp up to RS485 they take away that control but I will know more when I get the output from the other user. In fact MasterTemp says that it does not require a cooldown delay from the automation. Any cooldown required is done within the heater.

[rock-crusher]

OK, good to know, Thank you once again!

[rstrouse]

I added the valve delays for the pumps. The default delay is 30 seconds for valve movement.

Pull njsPC and dashPanel. You will need to do a hard refresh by navigating to dashPanel in the browser then hold down the ctrl key and press F5.

[rock-crusher]

Hi rstrouse, Yes, very cool, works as stated, thanks for implementing it. I will most likely use this feature when I finally put everthing into service. Since you are a very pool/spa savy person, I have another question, but off topic. I have a broken spa jet nozzle (least of my problems), the one that screws in deep inside the venturi tee with the 9/16" hex head. I cant seem to locate the correct one, I did buy one that looked identicle (Waterway), but no dice, the threads are different. My pool/spa is 33 years old, so I know I'm in for a challenge, no telling what brand venturi tees were being commonly used back then. Any suggestions for me?

[rstrouse]

I'm not sure I can help with the spa jets. Waterway makes a couple of different kinds. I have the Power Storm jets and they require a special Jet Wrench to pull them out.

[rstrouse]

I added several delays to the configurable delay manager. This includes the processing of Heater Cooldown delays. Pull njsPC and dashPanel and do not forget to hard refresh your browser with the dashPanel page open.

https://github.com/tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController/wiki/Nixie-Controller-Setup#delays

[rock-crusher]

Hi rstrouse, Lol... I did as you suggest below, but now cannot connect to Dashboard?

Pull njsPC and dashPanel and do not forget to hard refresh your browser with the dashPanel page open.

I went through the process twice, I even re-booted and still get this same message:

[rstrouse]

Shut down njsPC and do another pull. There was a typo in the initialization code for folks that already had a valve delay set up.

[rock-crusher]

Well, it connected, but things are screwed up not working correctly. Don't know how to explain it, but everything looks different now?
Dash panel is not showing correctly & incomplete. Circuit groups are missing from the Features list on the dash panel and I cant get them to return. The dash panel is only showing a partial view, not showing filters, schedules etc. It wont let me change things either? What I do wrong this time?

[rstrouse]

Right click on the screen and click inspect. Then click on the console tab to see if there are any errors. Also shoot a screenshot and upload it here.

[rock-crusher]

[rstrouse]

Pull dashPanel. I added additional exception handling if the state isn't completed updating. You must hard refresh your browser after pulling dashPanel,

[rock-crusher]

Ok, seems the dash panel is back to where it was before (the way it looked & how it was organized) but some of the buttons don't work, when clicked on, I get this message:

[rstrouse]

Click on the Hamburger menu then the backups tab. Then back up njsPC and REM server. When it completes it will download a zip file to your browser. Please upload that file here.

[rock-crusher]

backup.zip

[rock-crusher]

I can see some of your changes, but what happened to the Heater cool down delay?

[rstrouse]

The heater cooldown delay is part of the heater configuration. Only gas and MasterTemp have a cooldown delay but Pentair is adamant that it is not required for MasterTemp heaters. It uses a flue blower to cool down the heat exchanger in a controlled manner.

[rock-crusher]

Ok, thank you for that. Anything on the zip file?

[rstrouse]

Yes it turns out you have declared multiple spa circuits just to set the pump speeds. That is not right. Only the pool and/or spa should be set up as pool or spa.

[rock-crusher]

It worked like that before, it was the only way to have the delay action working while the valves were moving. If I didn't do that, there was no delay when the valves operated in any other scenario that I created. The delay was only for pool, or spa.

[rstrouse]

Ok so you need to set all those Aux-Circuits that you have set up that are not the pool or spa circuit to generic.

Then delete the following circuits. return valve intake valve heater

Then set up your intake and return valve relays on the valves tab. This is important as the intake and return valves are controlled by the body select.

On the heaters tab simply set the heater relay there you do not need that set up as a circuit.

What kind of cleaner do you have? If it is one with a booster pump you need to set up a circuit for the cleaner with a type of Master Cleaner. In that instance the pool cleaner will not engage until the cleaner booster pump has had time to prime. These pumps typically need forward pressure to ensure prime.

It really didn't work like that before it was simply ignoring the extra spa and pool circuits.

[rstrouse]

For the circuit groups you have I need to finish off the Spa Drain circuit type. That one scares me as Pentair typically does not allow that to engage anywhere but at the pad. Spa Drain will cavitate your pump if you leave it on.

[rstrouse]

I will make it so the pool and/or spa circuit types cannot be selected for non-body circuits. Maybe I will just reject saving them that way since Pentair gets weird about it if they are not there.

[rock-crusher]

I only created those scenarios in order to try and get the valve delay to work with something other than the pool/spa mode. I found changing circuits from generic to either spa, or pool accomplished this and it worked. Now, the delay for the valve movement is only for pool/spa. If you want a delayed valve action for anything other than that it will not work and the pump turns on while the valve is rotating.

[rstrouse]

What are you trying to accomplish with the valve delay? This only exists so you do not take your heated spa water and dump it into your pool. The reverse is also true so you do not dump cold pool water into your spa. This is not to save your valve or pump. The valve cycle and rotation can be done at whatever pressure or speed you have the pump running at.

[rstrouse]

Here are the ramblings from Pentair on the subject but this feature is only available on IntelliTouch and IntelliCenter. You will not find it on other panels such as iAqualink or Hayward.

[rock-crusher]

I have always thought it best to not rotate valves under pressure. Remember I said my pool was 33 years old, well it was originally built with the Ortega valves. Apparently those are what was mostly used back in the day? My previous pool also had those as well. Anyway, I learned the hard way with those valves, if you rotated them while the pump was running you pretty much destroyed the internal gasket/seal that they employed. I had motorized actuators on the Ortega's and the controller at the time was set-up with the delay feature so anytime the valves were called on to rotate the pump would turn off until the valves completed their rotation. Again, I just thought it was a good idea, and was searching for a way to accomplish this with this controller, and I did, but now... it won't allow it.

[rstrouse]

Other than the Intake and Return do you have any other valves. With that delay it will always delay on movement of those valves. I did not see any other valve defined on your system.

[rock-crusher]

No other valves.

[rstrouse]

Try setting it up the way I said and you will see what I mean. It knows when the valve needs to rotate and shuts down the pump for that rotation. The old Ortega valves (my last pool had them) needed lubed all the time. The only difference between those and the Jandy are really their need to be lubricated and the seals were not as durable.

Here is your setup doing just that.

[rock-crusher]

Yes, I understand what you are saying. This is what I had in mind when messing around with the delays:

For example, I want to click on one of my circuit group buttons and have the return valve rotate to spa, then after the delay (30 sec) the pump turns on at 3,450 rpm. This not only brings the water level up to full, but also cleans the surface of the water by pushing whatever dirt, debris, leaves etc. over and through the spillway. Then, after a short time, that can be turned off and the spa button clicked to fire up the spa with the delays in place, heater firing up etc. just as you say above.

Many times kids will play in the spa when it is not on. They will splash a lot of water out and the level is way down. Simply turning the spa on without first doing the scenario above will leave the water level low, and what ever dirt/debris the kids brought into it while playing will remain.

Remember I asked about macros? It sure would be nice to have the ability to create such a scenario as the above.

Scenario: Click spa button, return valve rotates to spa, after 30 seconds pump turns on at 3,450 rpm, after 3 min pump turns off intake valve rotates to spa, after 30 seconds pump resumes the 3,450 rpm, after the 10 second heater start delay heater fires-up.

[rstrouse]

Are you thinking of what is referred to as priming time? This is when a pump is first engaged. The priming speed starts for the period of time defined in the Priming time. This is not typically a feature of VSF pumps but it is a feature of VS pumps. Part of this has to do with the difference in the drive dynamics for the pump.

There isn't anything to say that Nixie couldn't synthesize such a feature.

[rock-crusher]

No, it's just a sequence of events that take place with time delays in place.

[rock-crusher]

Something your home automation would have.

[rstrouse]

njsPC supports many HA platforms for features like that. Our guideline for the Circuit Groups are based on what we see from the major vendor pool controllers at this time. You do have me thinking about sequences now though.

Here is an example of HA using a Vera plugin that talks to njsPC. All of the device categories are scene capable. There is also support for just about any platform out there and support for many of the protocols used by automation platforms. https://github.com/rstrouse/nodejs-poolController-veraPlugin

[rstrouse]

So I had an epiphany. Just because there is a limitation with the supported OCPs why in the heck do we need that limitation with Nixie. So if you pull njsPC you can put your config back the way you had it. You can simply restore that configuration from the one you sent me. It will be in your backups list.

In the end it is a dumb limitation to the body management. We already know which circuits are the master circuits because Nixie put them there, So your configuration should operate how you had it with the latest code.

[rock-crusher]

Well, I'm glad for your epiphany.

I'm happy to see that option is back in play, it's nice to have that flexibility with the delay & valve options. Only thing, it isn't exactly working as before. The delays are working just fine with whatever valve action you set-up, but the problem is the filter relay will always turn on too. Before the change, the filter relay would ONLY turn on when the spa, or pool button was clicked. Now, the filter relay always comes on no mater what valve configuration you set-up.

For instance, I click my spa empty button, it is set-up for the intake valve to rotate to spa suction, after the 30 second delay the pump turns on and the spa begins to drain into the pool. Problem is, the filter relay now turns on thus also turning on the salt cell, it didn't do that before the change. No reason for the filter relay/salt cell to be on while the spa is draining.

There may be a time one might want to change the valve configuration to say a waterfall using the delay feature, but not want the salt cell to run at the same time.

So, I guess my question to you would be: is there a way you can put it back to how it was so the filter relay would only turn on when the pool, or spa was on?