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Perfective forms of kmeed #181

Closed johnbent closed 2 years ago

johnbent commented 2 years ago

Perfective forms of kmeed created by jimgeselbracht@yahoo.com on 2017-01-02 22:53:59

johnbent commented 2 years ago

jimgeselbracht@yahoo.com replied,

These perfective forms kmeed are missing from tekinged.   okedii - v.pf.3s -- close to itokedau - v.pf.2s -- close to you and then getting fancy by adding on the prefix: lokedii (3s hypothetical prefix with v.pf.3s suffix):  She is close to it.mokedau (2s hypothetical prefix with v.pf.2s suffix):  you are close to you?    That doesn't make sense kmeed is a v.s. (state verb), and state verbs don't normally seem to have a perfective form (pronoun object), but it would make sense in this case, and I have seen these words used.  Any thoughts?

johnbent commented 2 years ago

johnbent@gmail.com replied,

We have okedii already under olekeed. Is this different?

What is the it- prefix in itokedau?

In terms of mokedau not making sense, you could imagine someone describing a dream where they had a clone who went missing and the listener asked "Ng dimlak mokedau?".

johnbent commented 2 years ago

jlukesemiwo@gmail.com replied,

Okedii-bring/get closer. Ex: 1) Moutekangel el okedii (lokedii) a olkeiungel ra ngerem ma rechad bo lungil rongesau. Please bring the mic closer to your mouth so people can hear you better. 2) Ng mle merur a Lukes meng kora di mle cheroid eng di ng di mle telkib eng mocha okedii. Lukes was shy and kept her distance but after a while she got closer.

Mokedii-bring it/that closer, referring to something in particular. To use example 1 above: Mokedii a olkeiungel ra ngerem...

Mokedau/okedau- used for/with second person, whom you're conversing with. Ex: 1) Mokedau me bo mungil remenges a cheldecheduch. Come/Get closer so you can hear better. 2) Ng kmal ungil me ke mla okedau rar mellomes me ke mesuub a tekoi. It's great that you have gotten closer with (or joined) the wise to learn things.

Present perfect: Ng mla me kmeed... Ng mla okedii... Ke mla okedau...

Past perfect: Ng ulkedii... Ng mlo kmeed...

Future perfect: Ng/Ke mo kmeed... Ng mo okedii... Ke mo okedau...

:-) J

johnbent commented 2 years ago

mngiruchelbad@gmail.com replied,

Jim is saying that  'okedau'  is missing. :-)


johnbent commented 2 years ago

jlukesemiwo@gmail.com replied,

Yes. But based on some parts of the email, I thought I'd offer more explanations and examples and, also in case something does need to be added.

My apologies. Please disregard everyone. Mousubes.

johnbent commented 2 years ago

johnbent@gmail.com replied,

No apologies! Not needed ever in this group.

The examples are great and I'll add most of them.

Okedii wasn't missing actually; just listed under olekeed and not kmeed. Okedau is missing but that's because we have currently decided to not add every -au form of the -ii verbs (i.e. we list the perfective third person forms but not second).

Thx

John

johnbent commented 2 years ago

mngiruchelbad@gmail.com replied,

good to know....not all should be added. 

johnbent commented 2 years ago

jimgeselbracht@yahoo.com replied,

I'll try to remember to look for the other forms of the verb.  Maybe it is a rule that state verbs are never perfected (given an object pronoun)? BTW, does anyone know why what we call adjectives in English are called state verbs in Palauan?  I always thought that was weird, but there is probably a perfectly reasonable explanation.

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johnbent commented 2 years ago

mngiruchelbad@gmail.com replied,

So being a state verb to kmeed as in okedii, is it possession, as state verbs fall into emotion, possession, sense, and thought? Dachelbai a mla okedii era Ulang ngera telocha kaketib er chelechang. hmmmm? yeah, if i am understanding this linguistic rule? 

johnbent commented 2 years ago

palau371@gmail.com replied,

okedii < olekeed. not a stative, no possession. it's v.caus, which is mostly used in reflexive sense. 

okedii = getting closer, bringing closer himself

kmeed is surely stative and can't have neither object, nor perfectives. 

johnbent commented 2 years ago

johnbent@gmail.com replied,

Yes Ulang, state verbs are about emotion and sense and thought.  I think of them as adjectives.  I have no idea why Josephs calls them state verbs.  Possession is for nouns.  Like BLAI is an unpossessed noun but BLIL is a possessed noun indicating who owns the house.

Is this a correct translation of your sentence?

Dachelbai a mla okedii era Ulang ngera telocha kaketib er chelechang.
Dachelbai brought Ulang close so why are they hitting each other now?

johnbent commented 2 years ago

mngiruchelbad@gmail.com replied,

Dachelbai brought himself close to Ulang, what kind of schemes are they planning now.