tdesktop should be screen-reader friendly

[marcelremmy]

hi there, i´m a very fan of telegram and i use it on lots of devices. great job for the lightweight feel of the messenger. i wanted to introduce telegram to a blind user but had to realize, the (windows) client is not good to use with a screen reader, i.e. zoomtext of aisquared... the software does not even understand what to do when using the "read this" command and selecting a portion of the telegram chat window. idk, but maybe this is only a small fix so the chat messages are understood as text inside a frame and the message input field is treated like an textarea (which would be readalout while typing). it would increase for accessibility of that otherwise modern chat system.

i tried the web version of telegram which is not usably for the blind either. at least the message text is recognized then -> "read this" command reads the chat but still the user would need to select the correct portion of the chat. is there are plain-text only version of the web app available? best regards

[Aokromes]

Maybe now with the chat background option and using black or white background can do the job?

[marcelremmy]

the changes u mention might work for visually impaired users that still have sight. that could work imho. but if the user relies on text to speech functionality the speech engine would need to understand that there´s a window with text in it. i had zoomtext to test, but it didn´t even get that the window (of the tdesktop client) contained text. idk, i hoped that like someone pointing me to an accessible fork of the client which drops visual eye candy for plain information.

[Aokromes]

Well, for linux you have text mode telegram, idk if that can do the job for you.

[noquierouser]

@Aokromes Those are not valid solutions for a non-Linux user, and much less a visually impaired user as well.

The application needs to check and comply to address accesibility issues in the UI aspect, using the tools provided by the UI toolkit, focusing on supporting Assistive Tools.

Maybe its worth checking this page in order to know how to address this issue, which is not a minor issue in my opinion.

[mrkiko]

Guys... The iOS app isn't accessible with VoiceOver on iPhone, this app seems not accessible (on Windows at least), the OS X version seems not accessible ... Hoping things get better. Iam a blind user, and after sending various feedback over the iOS App and leaving various reviews on the App Store, nothing changed. The CLI version might do the work, but that isn't confortable enough. the only really confortable solution I found is a pidgin plugin, telegram-purple. Very interesting project. But Telegram as whole should act differently in accessibility terms in my opinion. If what telegram wants to promote is privacy, which in turns may enable freedom of speech and communication, then accessibility is very very important. We can't search for something "doing the job": an effective solution is needed, and soon. I understand that many, if not all, developers of this project are volunteers, and my intention is not to impose naything on anyone, for sure. But think about it: how many Telegram Apps for different devices? How much time passed since initial releases? And no accessibility still? By the record, not even the Android app is accessible (it wasn't last time we checked, if we didn't do something wrong). Hoping I am wrong and someone can point me in the right direction in case. Thank you anyway for your work as a whole, Enrico

[ivmirx]

@mrkiko on Mac there's an alternative client called Telegram Messenger, you can get it in Mac App Store. It's accessible since it's done in native Cocoa UI.

[mrkiko]

Thank you for your hints. I am not actually a Mac OS X user, but this hint is a good one. Thank you very much, Enrico

[ymmer]

as i ran into this again and seeing only alternatives being discussed:

how about making the text messages in the active message window selectable by key strokes? i found that the contacts can be switched by ALT+Arrow Up/Down or CTRL+PgUp/Dn so this is feasible. now, only the messages should be selected by something like Shift+ALT+Arrows. after they are selected the content can STRG+C(opied).

this way there might be a way blind users can select and copy parts of the conversation and have them read from clipboard. right now i do not know how to this without the mouse. that would help imho.

the optimal solution would still be a switch in the settings that would allow for more telegram-cli style messaging inside the tdesktop app, implicating that would produce text content readable by Zoomtext, JAWS, NVDA and other solutions.

[rkingett]

I am a blind windows user. One way to make the program accessible, if it is not already, is to make a Miranda NG plugin for it. Does anyone have an accessible windows client that will work with NVDA?

[dreinn]

unfortunately Telegram team is absolutely insensitive to these kind of problems. I contacted many times for having help with the iOs app, and I obtained only a thing: the silence. I'm really angry because I'd like to use it, many friends are there and I can't chat, use bot, because developers are not interested to bring their products accessible for visual impaired.

[john-preston]

@dreinn I'm afraid the only thing I can currently suggest for the desktop is to use web version at https://web.telegram.org, I hope it is completely screen reader friendly (as is the browser it is opened in).

[rkingett]

The web version is not accessible, either, guys, but if you are looking for an accessible desktop instant messanger Miranda NG is the best way to go if you use a screen reader.

On 12/22/2016 11:08 AM, John Preston wrote:

@dreinn https://github.com/dreinn I'm afraid the only thing I can currently suggest for the desktop is to use web version at https://web.telegram.org, I hope it is completely screen reader friendly (as is the browser it is opened in).

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/476#issuecomment-268844726, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMj7zPTJGWoD3NnyKviBTqZ0tr3kjk1Nks5rKq6QgaJpZM4Ddx0e.

[ralesk]

2129 is marginally related, being both a usability and an accessibility issue.

[luisg123v]

I can confirm that, as of today (2017-04-06):

• iOS version is not accessible yet. You can navigate through some settings menus, but not much more.
• Linux version is not accessible yet. You can't access anything at all.
• Web version is a little bit accessible, but not accessible enough to write any message, because developers didn't even bother to use regular HTML fields properly (as a developer, I know this whould be a relatively simple task to accomplish).

I have not tested Windows/Mac versions yet, but I suspect I already know the end of the story.

As @mrkiko already pointed out, currently the best choice is to use the plug-in for pidgin, but, as far as I know, it still leaks some capabilities like message replies.

I should note that I haven't experienced issues like these when using other messaging apps, including Google Hangouts, Facebook Messenger and even WhatsApp. If we want Telegram to be a great app, then we shouldn't allow this kind of behaviors to happen.

[rkingett]

I can confirm without a shadow of a doubt that the windows application is not accessible to either JAWS OR NVDA. I have not tried the web version yet on windows.

[ralesk]

I have a few little tidbits to add that isn't exactly related to Telegram itself, but comes from my experience with screen readers and GUI frameworks.

At my day job I work on a GTK based app (which is of course a completely different technology than Qt), and we worked together with a few blind people to get the UI navigation right. They can't use mice, so there has to be full keyboard access with shortcuts for everything they'd want to use (there can be features a blind person won't want to use), and all the widgets involved must have accessibility metadata on what they are so the screen reader can tell them more than just "Entry.", "Combobox.".

Accessibility goes way beyond serving the blind. But even the considerations for the blind users can have a positive impact on those with no visual impairment at all: the shortcuts (even on items a blind person doesn't use, eg. the gifs) make it easier for everyone to access things.

There's also a lot of other disabilities that behave rather differently: visually impaired users typically do use the mouse and don't use screen readers, they just need special contrast or really large UI. Physically disabled people might have a bad time with precise pointing with the mouse, so keyboard navigation helps them. Deaf and hard of hearing people have no input hindrances, but they can only use visual alerts.

It's an effort, but it's usually worth it.

There's a catch though, and that's technological. At my day job we cannot switch from GTK so we're stuck to only supporting screen readers on Linux (Orca in particular) — as GTK is rather... lazy and hasn't implemented interaction with Windows's or macOS's accessibility layer at all. In short, Jaws or NVDA see an empty window and will read nothing beyond that. Qt has taken more care of this (and is actually worse on Linux instead although by default it navigates a lot better with the keyboard than GTK does), but I have no personal experience in how complete that support is; and what little I know about it is about classic QWidget GUIs, not Qt Quick ones. But as I said, there's a lot more to accessibility and usability than screen readers.

[ghost]

Hey there!

We're automatically closing this issue since there was no activity in this issue since 420 days ago. We therefore assume that the user has lost interest or resolved the problem on their own. Closed issues that remain inactive for a long period may get automatically locked.

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[luisg123v]

@tdesktop-closer This issue is still valid. There has not been activity lately because its status has not changed, but it still should be opened

[mrkiko]

Interest wasn0t lost.

[a-sitnik]

Focus on chats in daylight mode is too transparent, periodically difficult to see on TN or eye-saving adjusted monitors. Add more contrast. Needed for browsing with keyboard arrows. And yes, already using night mode because of this

[Simon818]

So what's up with this? Desktop is 100% unusable. Screen-reader reads nothing at all. There is an accessibility module that is part of QT which, if enabled, would make the app a lot closer to being usable. It wouldn't be perfect, and maybe it never will be, because it's QT. My point is that nobody has enabled it or acknowledged this as a problem.

Different set of issues I assume, but there's a total disregard for accessibility on iOS as well. Tons of unlabelled buttons and messages can't be read at all.

We're not asking for a rewrite. We're asking for the ability to get a message from a friend or family member saying "Have you heard about Telegram? Everyone is using it now." and to then download that app and not be horribly disappointed by even the most basic accessibility standards not being met.

[john-preston]

@Simon818 The problem is custom widgets. The accessibility support should be done for them from scratch. For example the whole message history is a single custom widget that should have a complex accessibility support and I'm not even sure it will be possible to read some specific (last) message from it by a screen reader.

[mrkiko]

Hello to allof you guys, and thank you for your work, patience and kindness. I can understand the situation is complicated for all the developers involved. I can confirm that the iOS App is nearly, completely unusable. At least, I can confirm you can not read chat messages from within the conversation. Ok, I should not be too much off-topic.

I hope all the best for this situation and all of us.

[rkingett]

They don't want to, sadly. At least Discord is starting to take accessibility seriously. I think this application applies under the American CVAA? If so, it may be time to get the FCC involved. They tell us to use the website.

[dw-b]

Over a year later, issue still open, no attempt to address it by the devs.

Basic compatibility with screen reader software - whether its JAWS for windows or VoiceOver for Mac OS - should be standard. Ignoring it cuts out a whole section of society from conversations with others.

Something as

[rkingett]

It's a shame, because this could be so useful. At least Discord said they would make an effort. But since they are operating a communications site, could the FCC take action per the 21st century communications act?

[dw-b]

What’s equality legislation like in the US? The uk is strong for public services / essential utilities... it would be harder to mandate compliance for a private service.

Telegram has millions of users and the lack of accessibility is, if nothing else, morally wrong. Even 1 person apps manage it.

[rkingett]

Maybe it would be better to go through UK legislation but the below is info about the act we have here that talks about communication apps and sites.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/21st-century-communications-and-video-accessibility-act-cvaa

Thanks for reading! I'd really appreciate it if you would share and donate to my GoFundMe campaign, Get me to Writing excuses 2019.. If you can't donate, share like crazy. gf.me/u/pq4vpc

[mrkiko]

Hello to everybody, and ... happy new yea, in some hours! :) :)

So, I think that communicationbetween people is the best way to go in any case: all the rest should be used in my opinion only when we run out of ways to communicate and understand each other. That said, I was not able to get, for example, iOS dev team to care about this. I should admit I stopped trying. and BTW, during latest updates, they worstened the iOS App accessibility even more, so that I am not even able to access the App settings now. I hope things can change. I know, developing is / can be an hard work. And making an App accessible may involve a lot of work. but still, I see features getting added as time goes on, but no care for accessibility. Hoping this can change with the new year guys. thanks to all, for all.

Enrico

[john-preston]

@mrkiko I would welcome PRs related to accessibility features and support in tdesktop.

[ymmer]

just FYI (as most of you might have read) the mobile apps recently have added accessibility features.

VoiceOver and TalkBack We’ve added support for accessibility features – VoiceOver on iOS and TalkBack on Android. These gesture-based technologies give you spoken feedback so that you can use Telegram without seeing the screen. https://telegram.org/blog/unsend-privacy-emoji

[Simon818]

I heard about this yesterday and am really excited. There are a couple of small issues still (is there somewhere I should be reporting them?) But it's a pretty awesome experience and I really appreciate the amount of work that probably went into this. Thank you for the update.

-Simon

On Mar 26, 2019, at 01:35, ymmer notifications@github.com wrote:

just FYI (as most of you might have read) the mobile apps recently have added accessibility features.

VoiceOver and TalkBack We’ve added support for accessibility features – VoiceOver on iOS and TalkBack on Android. These gesture-based technologies give you spoken feedback so that you can use Telegram without seeing the screen. https://telegram.org/blog/unsend-privacy-emoji

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[francipvb]

@mrkiko I would welcome PRs related to accessibility features and support in tdesktop.

Hello @john-preston

There is native accessibility support for UIAutomation in QT 5.11 and later, so first you should upgrade your QT dependency to that version or later to have basic accessibility support.

Next you can work on the widgets, keyboard layout and these details.

Unfortunately, I don't know C++ nor QT enough to help you on this.

[john-preston]

@francipvb This won't be easy, because right now I have to build two separate releases for macOS - Qt 5.3 for OS X 10.6 - 10.7 and Qt 5.6 for OS X 10.8 - macOS 10.14. This upgrade will mean that I have to build three releases on macOS.

[ralesk]

Is it worth supporting an OS X version probably not even Apple supports? Also, Qt 5.11 supports macOS 10.11 and further, and 10.11 was released in 2015.

[john-preston]

@ralesk Well, there are existing users, I guess it is worth for them. But I'm planning to deprecate 10.6-10.7 and 10.8-10.9 at some point. Maybe after that there still could be two releases, Qt 5.9 for 10.10-10.11 and Qt 5.12 for 10.12 and above.

[MarcoZehe]

Since the official Telegram desktop is still not accessible, and upgrading QT is apparently quite difficult, there is at least a solution for screen reader users on Windows 10. It's called Unigram and is a Windows 10 universal WP app. In the wake of the mobile accessibility enhancements, it also gained a lot of accessibility features recently and is actively being improved. Perhaps this is a solution for some. At least works very well for me.

[ralesk]

@john-preston Yeah the question was intended in a way whether there are such ridiculously outdated users in the first place.

[Aokromes]

qt 5.9 is now the minimum for old osx and snap 5.12.5 for windows 7+ :)

[francipvb]

Hello,

I've tried Telegram Desktop but NVDA cannot recognize any UI element in the application. However, the main window is recognized as an UIA object. Apparently telegram doesn't uses standard QT controls, but they have accessibility implemented.

Cheers,

[beqabeqa473]

hello all and tdesktop devs first of all.

what is the status of this issue? i understand thing about custom widgets, but let's start from beginning. on the initial screen, we have one single button called start messaging. why this kind of widgets could not be accessible? what's a problem with them?

[stale[bot]]

Hey there!

This issue will be automatically closed in 7 days if there would be no activity. We therefore assume that the user has lost interest or resolved the problem on their own.

Don't worry though; if this is an error, let us know with a comment and we'll be happy to reopen the issue.

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[alex19EP]

shouldn't be closed.

[rkingett]

Agreed. This shouldn't be closed.

[beqabeqa473]

shouldn't be closed untill measures will not be taken.

On 10/24/20, Robert Kingett notifications@github.com wrote:

Agreed. This shouldn't be closed.

-- You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/476#issuecomment-715571314

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[marcelremmy]

the accessibility features would still improve the app.

another solid client for telegram/tdlib is available as Unigram for Windows. best part: it is mostly compatible with recent screen reader software.

[beqabeqa473]

it is only compatible with windows 10, what if we want to use telegram with earlier versions of windows or linux?

On 10/24/20, marcel notifications@github.com wrote:

the accessibility features would still improve the app.

another solid client for telegram/tdlib is available as Unigram for Windows. best part: it is mostly compatible with recent screen reader software.

-- You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/476#issuecomment-715639783

-- with best regards beqa

[Carlos-EstebanM]

Hi all. I am a blind user and I can use Telegram in Android. In Windows 10, yes, is possible use Unigram with the screen readers. But Telegram Desktop have a problem. When I open Telegram Desktop, the screen reader NVDA, a screen reader free and open source for Windows, only sais Telegram Desktop grouping. Is possible use the ocr for press the button continue the first time, and aftter of chekc the phone number the navigation with the keiboard not exist. Tab key, up and dawm arrous keys, nothin. The OCR of Windows 10 work in the Window, but in a application for messaging the use don't is confortable. Well, some organizations can help to the developers with this. For example, the organization of NVDA, NV Access, have a consulting accessibility services. https://www.nvaccess.org/services/ Regards.

[pbsinnett]

Hi,

I agree that there needs to be accessibility with the official client. While I use Unigram, I'd really like to use a portable version on a USB drive. This is of course not possible with Unigram.

Please consider implementing accessibility soon. The mobile apps work quite well now. I know these things take time, but a post every now and then about any updates on the status of accessibility would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[bmivzkrp]

Dear developers. Please write, are there any measures taken to improve the accessibility of Telegram-Desktop for Linux?