tetrio / issues

Report issues and discuss improvements / feature requests around TETR.IO
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Monetization using supporter-only practice tools #869

Open blokkendos opened 2 years ago

blokkendos commented 2 years ago

Checklist

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.

Problem: There are few incentives to buy or gift supporter for the majority of players. Giving/receiving supporter feels like a nice benefit but not much of a favor.

Describe the solution you'd like

Suggestion: a way to incentivize buying/gifting supporter without making the game pay-to-win might be adding practice tools that are exclusive to supporters. The practice tools should be useful to both new and experienced players in a way that people are grateful to receive supporter subscriptions and it feels like a better gift to give. This is a strategy I see adopted by chess websites.

Practice tool ideas I've seen suggested:

Describe alternatives you've considered

n/a

Additional context

No response

deedeeen commented 2 years ago

You're giving solutions to a non-existent problem. The current perks of TETR.IO Supporter are enough - I don't question osk's choice otherwise though - as they don't forcibly move essential mechanics into Supporter (for example, bot rooms).

Remember that the subscriptions are entirely optional and were not created for another pay-to-win platform, which you... still gave pay-to-win ideas for; for example, I do not wish to listen to a conversation where you "have to be a supporter to undo Zen moves". On top of it, some of them are difficult to implement.

And just to be sure, chess websites limit more than TETR.IO.

blokkendos commented 2 years ago

You're giving solutions to a non-existent problem. The current perks of TETR.IO Supporter are enough - I don't question osk's choice otherwise though - as they don't forcibly move essential mechanics into Supporter (for example, bot rooms).

Remember that the subscriptions are entirely optional and were not created for another pay-to-win platform, which you... still gave pay-to-win ideas for; for example, I do not wish to listen to a conversation where you "have to be a supporter to undo Zen moves". On top of it, some of them are difficult to implement.

And just to be sure, chess websites limit more than TETR.IO.

There is a difference between pay-to-win and pay-to-improve. But, for instance, a game may have paid coaching or paid video tutorials and paying for these will offer a competitive advantage and improve winrate. But this is plainly distinct from pay-to-win, offering another path, perhaps a jumpstart to improvement rather than a permanent static plus, ... The list of tentative suggestions are ones I've seen floating around in my time in the tetris community and represent no more than examples of training tools analogous to these forms of paid training/coaching, not meant to be dissected or used as arguments against the concept as a whole. In fact, of the list given, the criticism would if anything be not that they are doing too much for winrate but doing too little vs the opportunity cost of playing other modes.

I'm not sure if the comment is reading this as a bug when it says "not a problem", or implying a grasp of what osk is satisfied with or aiming for financially? I had a stint on something online-related in the past, and incentivizing player purchases was always something that drove discussion and avenues of development. Of course, if that comes at a cost of expanding playerbase it can work against its own aim. I.e. microtransactions and cash grabs alienating the audience - which is a valid concern. When I took a look at chess sites however, I thought they maybe sidestepped this issue a little, and thought it would be an interesting option for something like tetrio. - more of a broad and vague possibility than a simple feature - Though, from this response, perhaps the very idea of adding exclusive paid perks invites hostility and worsens the game in fostering ill will.

o5k commented 2 years ago

Outside of things that would require server time or resources, I don't feel too comfortable asking money for those kinds of things. I've considered them before, but the general feel I have with it is that you are paywalling part of the path to success, which is not the intended vision behind the game. In fact, I'd feel more comfortable with lootboxes than this... since those would be truly cosmetic only. Paid improvement tools, while not really pay-to-win, skirt a dangerous line that I believe will hurt the game's image.

Monetization is important, and it needs to be improved in further updates to be able to upkeep the momentum I want to have in the game (especially around Character System and the like). So, monetization ideas are always welcome, and I will keep this issue open for more discussion.

deedeeen commented 2 years ago

Thanks @o5k for commenting on the issue. The following reply is dedicated to @blokkendos.

There is a difference between pay-to-win and pay-to-improve.

But this is plainly distinct from pay-to-win, offering another path, perhaps a jumpstart to improvement rather than a permanent static plus, ...

I do not think so. The definition of pay-to-win is to be able to pay for a benefit that gives you an advantage against other players. Pretty broad, isn't it?

But, for instance, a game may have paid coaching or paid video tutorials and paying for these will offer a competitive advantage and improve winrate.

Will this give an impression that developers of the game specifically endorse the paid content? I get it if there is an in-game shop dedicated for this, but I also don't prefer that sort of shop specifically inside a game for doing so creates another bad impression of "pay for the game and watch this exclusive educational video!!!".

The list of tentative suggestions are ones I've seen floating around in my time in the tetris community and represent no more than examples of training tools analogous to these forms of paid training/coaching, not meant to be dissected or used as arguments against the concept as a whole. In fact, of the list given, the criticism would if anything be not that they are doing too much for winrate but doing too little vs the opportunity cost of playing other modes.

Now, will the exclusiveness hinder free training and will the training material not be wasted?

I'm not sure if the comment is reading this as a bug when it says "not a problem", or implying a grasp of what osk is satisfied with or aiming for financially?

I did not say that it would be a bug, What I mean is, osk will decide what to do.

I had a stint on something online-related in the past, and incentivizing player purchases was always something that drove discussion and avenues of development.

I will not comment on this.

Of course, if that comes at a cost of expanding playerbase it can work against its own aim. I.e. microtransactions and cash grabs alienating the audience - which is a valid concern.

Thank you for the recognition.

When I took a look at chess sites however, I thought they maybe sidestepped this issue a little, and thought it would be an interesting option for something like tetrio. - more of a broad and vague possibility than a simple feature - Though, from this response, perhaps the very idea of adding exclusive paid perks invites hostility and worsens the game in fostering ill will.

If correctly executed, it does provide a rather good incentive. I don't mind adding more, as long as they don't spike controversy. The idea here is that I don't support exclusive practicing tools. Practicing is part of winning, and sealing the barebones behind paywalls will rather give another bad impression of "this another -.io game wants us to pay to know how to win". Bad impressions will always lessen income, no matter how good the features are.