scd
commented
10 years ago Just to be clear, are there two issues here - the local language version of the style of climbing but also the English version they use for the style in that area.
To summarise, in Germany:
- Use 'Clean' instead of 'Trad';
- Any grading system may be used are used for 'Alpine' climbing
- We would have to change our definition of Alpine climbing in Germany because you may need a full 'Trad'/'Clean' rack (actually this probably applies to a lot of places around the world where there is technical multipitching in alpine regions)
- Plaisir is an alternate name for Sport climbing, but in the mountains.
I think we need a multi faceted approach here.
- Add an extra gear type called Plasir
- We can add localisation names to gear types (however, what does a Swiss person look for in Germany - Alpine Sport or Plaisir?)
- Expand our definition of Alpine (none of theCrag team really does much Alpine climbing so we are yet to understand the nuances).
The one thing I have difficulty understanding is the term 'Clean'. I think it is potentially confusing and overlaps with other concepts on the site. Do you think it could be resolved by having better help text over the 'Trad' label. Do Germans really say that they have a 'clean rack' instead of 'trad rack', and what about referring to themselves as a 'clean climber' instead of a 'trad climber'. I am just wondering if there is a new concept here where 'clean' refers to the purity of the style of climbing. Clean climbing sounds like it is a value statement that trad climbing is a higher form of climbing than sport climbing.
Does bouldering have similiar nuances? Alpine bouldering?
I think we need to engage more climbers and wider opinions before we start implementing.
lordyavin
brendanheywood
rouletout
quaestor
Mdemaillard
georg-d
I have read the help pages for tick types and gear style several times and I think that I understand most of the stuff. But still there are some strange difference in using the terms. E.g. in Germany we don't use the term "trad". I don't know why but for some reasons people talk about "clean" climbing because there are no pre-set protections. Another example is "alpine". We use alpine always if we do a multi-pitch route in the Alps or in high altitude regions. For us this indicates that a route is not protected as a sport climb and you have to bring your trad rack with. But there are so called "plaisir" routes which are well protected and you don't need additional gear beyond quick draws and a rope. I think "plaisir" is a term introduced by the Swiss. In Germany some call such routes "alpine sport routes".
Of course this terms depend on history, tradition and the local language. I would love to see that theCrag grows and this means we need a system that is understood by every member of the international climbing community. We need good and clear documentation and maybe a vocabulary that helps non English climbers to write good descriptions with the correct terms and to use the website.
BTW: Please excuse my English ;-)