add summit's for mountaineering when logging ascents.

[scd]

A mountaineer should be able to get a list of summits based on the ascents they have logged.

Maybe a route needs summit info if it ends at a summit.

[brendanheywood]

This is a very difference target audience, eg this would also cover hill walkers / peak baggers etc who may not be 'climbing' and think of us.

Perhaps a 'summit' would best just be a new node type, and you would simply looking at the facet of nodes of type summit which contain ticks by you, or alternatively the facet of ascents filtered to 'inside summit' and sorted & grouped by node type which would give you the break down of summits and which routes you used to get there.

Also worth noting that this is the data model used by NZ climbs:

http://climbnz.org.nz/mountains http://climbnz.org.nz/nz/si/aoraki/malte-brun-range/mt-abel

I like the idea of a peak also having extra metadata, the obvious extra field being height, but possibly others too.

Having a list a 'summit' nodes as such is sort of similar to country nodes, in that we could automatically ingest from an open data set a list of summits and their heights and locations, and even automatically create or update nodes based on that (also perfectly fits the gibbon). eg these guys are not open but we could have a chat to them / partner:

http://www.peaklist.org/lists.html http://www.peaklist.org/WWlists/oceania/New_Zealand_S_600m.html

[scd]

This came from user feedback from our welcome message.

Yes a separate node is probably best. Can a summit have cliffs with routes that don't go to the summit. In otherwords is the summit the peak or is it the mountain? A summit route will be on the mountain but end at the peak. However you might just do a technical climb at a base cliff at the bottom of the mountain.

[brendanheywood]

I think for this particular use case the node type would be 'summit' and only the routes that finish on the submit should be there. A 'summit' could easily be inside a crag that has other walls or ridges etc.

However there is a much bigger topic: this whole audience is currently not being served well, or at all really. If / when we choose to target them I'd want to think about it properly and not just add small tweaks. It's also worth noting that NZ climb has node types of 'National park', 'Range', 'Pass', 'Mountain', 'Face', and others. They also have properly done the concept of multiple parents too, eg a peak that straddles a border could have 2 or 3 parent regions, or ridges, or glaciers etc. I think getting both of these features right would be important to targeting the hill walker, peak bagger, mountaineer audience. Another difference with regular rock climbing is that almost every ascent can be special in some way, they don't always conform to regular often repeated routes like trad or sport, so in this regard it may actually make more sense to be able to 'tick' a summit area itself rather than a set route up that summit. There is some conceptual data model overlap here with #2228 (visit / checkin to a gym / crag / node). Also an ascent could take days or weeks, and they might want to log each days movements individually. The core concepts here are just really different to climbing.

[azuresubmarine]

Hi, I am the guy who gave the user feedback. I understand that it is a strategic question, what kind of an audience you want to target.

For example, somebody posted a mountaineering route to the top of Piz Palü: https://www.thecrag.com/climbing/switzerland/alpen/graubunden/engadin/route/997138830 That inspired me to suggest such a route could automatically also log the summit/peak (if you didn't have to bail and tick "attempt", that is).

P.S. Obviously, in mountaineering, routes are often graded not only with a single grade, but with whatever you may encounter. Here in Switzerland, all mountaineering routes in guidebooks are usually graded with a mountaineering grade (IFAS), complemented by a climbing grade (UIAA or French numerical). Additionally, if the climb includes ice climbing, this one is added as well. So Piz Palü Ostpfeiler (Eastern Pillar) would be graded "D-/IV".

P.P.S. You may want to think of a language policy (e.g. English only), as people sometimes seem to post in German here, or surely in other languages in other places.

[scd]

I think we mostly have the grades in place for the routes, however you cannot record all the grade components in the ascent. The various grading systems you mentioned are supported.

We are moving toward multi language. The site menus and system data is already available in about 5 languages and we are part way through a massive piece of work to make the site fully multi-lingual.

[brendanheywood]

thanks heaps for the feedback @azuresubmarine :) This is all stuff we want to get right, it's just the never-ending balancing act of 'whats next', and as you can probably see we have a pretty long todo list!

[azuresubmarine]

Keep up the good work! I think a comprehensive platform that combines climbing and mountaineering features would be quite unique and greatly appreciated.

[lordyavin]

Another reason to have summit nodes. Its good for orientation to maintain the peaks/summits and add them to overview topos of a region.