DaneEvans
commented
3 years ago Is a trad PP even trad?
I'll hear the argument if the gear is poor, but generally I can't see it
On Sun, 23 May 2021, 3:49 pm Oliver Adams, @.***> wrote:
What happened?
I pink-pointed a climb at a given grade, but it's not seen in the pyramid to the side. See Christian Crack under Notable Ascents in the screenshot below
Example url(s) to reproduce the problem:
https://www.thecrag.com/climber/oliveradams
Screenshot:
What you expected:
- Some pink in the grade 20 bar in the pyramid.
I don't understand the mechanics at play here, but if I had to guess it's because toprope solos surprisingly have a smaller tick shift than pink points. In this case it's 100 for the TR solo and 130 for the pink point. When I click on the grade 20 bar in the pyramid, I do see Christian Crack, however it's listed as TR solo. Presumably this is because the CPR from the TR solo is higher. So maybe the real issue here is that you get more points for a TR solo than a pink point, which doesn't make sense since you don't have to spend energy clipping and the psychological element of fear of falling isn't there. For any reasonable TR solo setup, it is far easier than pink-pointing (even without weighting the rope).
Taking a look at the [image: documentation on tick shift calculations] https://camo.githubusercontent.com/533897da1f825643c3901e958a32a53b9fad7980a2df4fa71e667cef9ddda6aa/68747470733a2f2f7777772e746865637261672e636f6d2f656e2f61727469636c652f7469636b7368696674 it seems the tick shifts are calculated via some statistical method, and the docs do reference some oddities regarding trad pink points. I would be interested to know what statistical approach is used to determine tick shits and maybe think about how we could bake in some prior information to the model so that the tick shifts at least observe some sort of reasonable ordering across tick types, with pink points being considered harder than rope solos.
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rouletout
oadams
What happened?
I pink-pointed a climb at a given grade, but it's not seen in the pyramid to the side. See Christian Crack under Notable Ascents in the screenshot below
Example url(s) to reproduce the problem:
https://www.thecrag.com/climber/oliveradams
Screenshot:
What you expected:
I don't understand the mechanics at play here, but if I had to guess it's because toprope solos surprisingly have a smaller tick shift than pink points. In this case it's 100 for the TR solo and 130 for the pink point. When I click on the grade 20 bar in the pyramid, I do see Christian Crack, however it's listed as TR solo. Presumably this is because the CPR from the TR solo is higher. So maybe the real issue here is that you get more points for a TR solo than a pink point, which doesn't make sense since you don't have to spend energy clipping and the psychological element of fear of falling isn't there. For any reasonable TR solo setup, it is far easier than pink-pointing (even without weighting the rope).
Taking a look at the
it seems the tick shifts are calculated via some statistical method, and the docs do reference some oddities regarding trad pink points. I would be interested to know what statistical approach is used to determine tick shits and maybe think about how we could bake in some prior information to the model so that the tick shifts at least observe some sort of reasonable ordering across tick types, with pink points being considered harder than rope solos.