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theboy181 / demul

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Feature Request: preferred square pixel size #227

Open GoogleCodeExporter opened 9 years ago

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
1. Start any PAL game
2. Look with horror at distorted faces - mostly when playing Shenmue. ;)

Current Version/Win7 x64
-

Regardless of which aspect ratio option you pick in the plugin settings, you 
will never get the correct aspect ratio for pal games (576i ?) when using 
fullscreen. It seems that demul internally always renders in an NTSC aspect 
ratio and then has no way to correct it in the output settings.

Tested with Shenmue 1 Pal.

Original issue reported on code.google.com by harlekin...@gmail.com on 27 Jul 2014 at 7:09

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Cant reproduce it here, cant you post few screenshots of such "distorted faces" 
?

Original comment by 0vet...@gmail.com on 27 Jul 2014 at 7:24

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Fair. I provide the images - you (hopefully the fixes), this is a deal! :) And 
please do - demul is already so close to perfect on many games that further 
generations with high probability will experience the old gems on this 
emulation and its an oversight of the highest order if you provide them with a 
(slight but cringeworthy) distorted vision of the original.

Game is Shenmue 1 Pal, played in 60HZ (its a pre start menu option)

In both images you are seeing the game being run in a 720*576 window,
- on the left with aspect ratio 4:3 enabled (notice the black bars, game is 
rendered with 480 vertical resolution) >this is the output you are also getting 
in fullscreen mode

- on the right with aspect ratio "stretch" (which adjusts the content to 576 
lines, because of the window size chosen) > stretch is not a workable 
workaround for fullscreen mode to achieve 576 line scaling

Settings are: 1x internal scaling, 1x FXAA enabled, no vsync, dx11 plugin;

The problem is quite obvious:

http://harlekin.me/fileups/dcemu1.png
http://harlekin.me/fileups/dcemu2.png
http://harlekin.me/fileups/dcemu3.png

Interestingly the (/some) graphic overlays (clock in Shenmue, menu items f.e.) 
aren't distorted to begin with. I have no clue at what stage they are 
"applied", but thats the argument for "maybe not just stretch the output in the 
end", but to "let it render in the correct (or at least a user setable) 
resolution/aspect ratio" (if auto detect should turn out to be a problem. ( 
Also, if they should turn out to be distorted in the original (Pal version at 
576) - leave them be. ;) )

Short reminder - Shenmue 2 will be only playable for most people in the Pal 
version - this needs to be fixed. Think of the cultural heritage! ;)

And thank you so much in advance. 

ps: If you need the games image for comparative reasons, look out for the 
magnet link in here:
http://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45623&start=15

Original comment by harlekin...@gmail.com on 27 Jul 2014 at 10:45

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
720/576 = 1.25
4/3 = 1.33333333333

720/1.333333333 = 540

576 - 540 = 36

36 / 2 = 13

13 lines from top and 13 lines from bottom, that's ecactly what you must expect 
using nonstandard resolution with 4:3 forced aspect ratio...

Original comment by cah4e3 on 28 Jul 2014 at 6:57

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Thank you for this entertaining calculation example - but it fails to 
acknowledge the problem entirely, while also showing a lack of understanding.

The second is the harder accusation, so lets handle it first.

-"nonstandard resolution". It might not have come to your attention, but 
720*576 was the STANDARD for Broadcast as well as Dreamcast Games for one third 
of the world. Its called PAL - and its A STANDARD. Dev, meat standard, standard 
meet dev. Enchanting.

Now back to the problem.

- I never complained about black bars.
- I never complained about 4:3 not working correctly in theory

I complained about PAL games not being displayed in demul according to the 
creators intent.

Next, let me introduce you to PAR (Pixel aspect ratio):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_aspect_ratio

>For example, a 640 × 480 VGA image has a SAR of 640/480 = 4:3, and if 
displayed on a 4:3 display (DAR = 4:3) has square pixels, hence a PAR of 1:1. 
By contrast, a 720 × 576 D-1 PAL image has a SAR of 720/576 = 5:4, but is 
displayed on a 4:3 display (DAR = 4:3).

In short, there is a difference between (legacy) PAL 4:3 and 4:3 as used in 
your calculation.

The insert "legacy" is important, as today our viewing standard even in Pal 
Land shows a Pixel Aspect ratio of 1:1.

The problem here is that games got adopted to being displayed on (legacy) Pal, 
before they were sold. Demul doest take this into account > warped faces.

Original comment by harlekin...@gmail.com on 28 Jul 2014 at 9:36

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Or possibly the other way around - games compensated for 576 vertical 
resolution "as if the pixels were square" (PAR of 1:1) and thereby messed up 
the internal aspect ratio handling. (?)

Original comment by harlekin...@gmail.com on 28 Jul 2014 at 9:41

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
New Term: "Preferred square pixel size":
http://www.artbeats.com/assets/articles/pdf/aspect_ratio_2.pdf

Original comment by harlekin...@gmail.com on 28 Jul 2014 at 9:48

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
dreamcast uses always 640x480 or 640x240 or less divisible by 2, the display 
signal output generated by the video DAC, not by the dreamcast itself. it can 
just "compensate" the pixel aspect with compressing or shrinking the picture in 
the same 640x480 window, so you could see on demul. we don't emulate TV system 
signals not how it displayed on the TV, but you have all controls to make it 
look right, and you used it to take your pictures (hint: stretch mode). so I 
just can't see a problem. even more, I can't see a problem in 13 pixel 
distortion to overall gameplay itself, and just don't understand what you mean 
about "only playable in PAL version" for most people... lol

Original comment by cah4e3 on 29 Jul 2014 at 11:07

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by cah4e3 on 29 Jul 2014 at 11:09

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by cah4e3 on 29 Jul 2014 at 11:10

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by cah4e3 on 12 Mar 2015 at 8:21