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Kate - GOND SOCIETIES OF INDIA #60

Closed stellasilbert closed 2 years ago

stellasilbert commented 3 years ago

Kate's notes with Stella's comments:

  |   | Issue32 | Kate | GOND SOCIETIES OF INDIA: THE SONG METADATA IS LOW ON DETAIL, BUT THE CURRENT GROUPINGS SEEM AS THOUGH THEY MIGHT LUMP SEVERAL GOND GROUPS THAT ARE DISTINGUISHED IN OTHER DATASETS |   |   |   -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | --   |   |   |   | From WIkipedia: "Most of the Gondi dialects are still inadequately recorded and described. The more important dialects are Dorla, Koya, Madiya [Madia, Maria], Muria, and Raj Gond. Some basic phonologic features separate the northwestern dialects from the southeastern. [...]" |   |   |     |   |   |   | SPECIFIC SUGGESTIONS TO CONSIDER (I LOOKED AT THE ETHNOLOGUE POLYGON MAPS TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHICH GOND LANGUAGE SHOULD BE ASSIGNED TO WHICH GROUP; I ALSO SKIMMED THE SONG METADATA) |   |   |     |   |   |   | CAVEAT: IT MAY BE THAT THE DIFFERENT GOND SUBGROUPS ARE HIGHLY MIXED SPATIALLY - IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN USING LAT LON 'CLUMPS' TO ASSIGN GROUPS MAY NOT BE DEFENSIBLE |   |   |     |   |   |   |   |   |   |     |   | Issue32a | Kate | CONSIDER SPLITTING 14708 into two societies, OR REVISING THE LATITUDE FOR A SUBSET OF THE SONGS ASSIGNED TO DORLA |   |   |     | The current society lat lon seems fine to me, especially considering what I found below. --Stella |   |   | 14708 | Dorla |   | SONG ID: 3784,3785,3786,3787,3799,3801 -- these fall in the area the web suggests should be Dorla Gond territory. Society lat long =24.61, 80.48   | Original tape notes states that these songs were recorded in "Gaganapalli" (also spelled "Ganganapalli" once), no state given, and that the performers are Dorla. The current lat lon is located in Ganganapalli, Andhra Pradesh. However, through some google searches, I'm seeing that there are 2 villages called "Ganganpalli" in Chhatisgarh. One is located at 18.015477847500144, 81.45242664997093, and the other at 18.452586460075384, 80.91725813456608. Either of these seem more likely to be the location of the recordings, as they are both in the Bastar region of Chhatisgarh, and Dorla peole are known to live in the districts in that region. I suggest reassigning songs 3788,3789,3798,3800 to one of these locations, just don't know which one to pick. They are pretty close to each other. Any advice would be helpful! --Stella |   |   | 14708--problems | Dorla-NEEDS CORRECTION? |   | SONG ID: 3788,3789,3798,3800. THESE SONGS ALL HAVE A VERY SOUTHERLY LAT LON (14.51, 78.36) --they fall into what would typically be considered "Telugu" territory. Two options to consider: (1) CONSIDER MERGING WITH 17183 (Andra Pradesh/Telugu), but obviously this should only be done if there is some other reason to support this change (e.g., notes with recordings suggest these songs are Telugu rather than Dorla songs?). (2) Alternatively, COULD THERE BE AN ERROR IN THE LATITUDE FOR THESE DORLA SONGS? -- SHOULD IT ACTUALLY BE 24.51, to match the other Dorla recordings? (See row above this one). IF YES, COULD CORRECT THE LATITUDE TO MATCH THE DORLA SONGS IN ROW ABOVE (i.e., change latitude from 14 to 24, if this seems like a plausible error) -- however, someone with more knowledge of the recordings should make this deicsion, not me!   |   |   |   |   |   |   |     |   | Issue32b | Kate | SUGGEST SPLITTING 16028: |   |   |   Done (see notes) | According to liner notes (https://archives.crem-cnrs.fr/archives/collections/CNRSMH_E_1980_009_001/), songs 9842-9846 should actually be MURIA gond. Songs 9847-9850 should be MARIA. So I have renamed 16028 "Maria Gond" as suggested and left songs 9847-9850 assigned to it, and assigned songs 9842-9846 to Muria Gond 21924. --Stella |   |   | 16028 | RENAME: Maria Gond |   | Song ID: 9842,9843,9844,9845,9846,9847,9848,9849,9850; alt names: Madia Gond; match to mari1414 - mrr. Ethnographic Atlas society Eg3 Madia. Society lat lon 20, 80. Justification: (1) Song metadata for two songs includes mention of "Maria" (wedding dance/song). (2) All lat lon for this group of songs is identical. Done (see notes) | Note: Metadata for songs 844-852 have the following note: "No notes other than a song list in the tape box, which gives no place or date of recording." I checked and confirmed that I can't find any specific location listed for these recordings. So, I think they were assigned a lat lon in Nagpur somewhat arbitrarily. However, given that that is all we have to work with, I have gone ahead with this suggestion and included them in the new "Northern Gondi" society (62528), along with songs 411,3853, 3854, and 3797, which do have specific lat lons in Northern Gond territory. --Stella |   |   | 16028--Assign new ID? | RENAME: Northern Gondi |   | SONG ID: 411,844,845,846,847,848,849,850,851,852,3853,3854,3797. Link to nort2702 - gno. Justification: This group of songs all has more northern latitudes, and falls within the polygons for what Ethnologue calls "Northern Gondi" (gno). Society lat lon: 21.14, 79.08   |   |   |   |   |   |   |     |   | Issue32c | Kate | CONSIDER WHETHER ONE SONG HAS BEEN MISASSIGNED: |   |   |     | Confirmed in tape notes that this song is performed by Dhurwa Gond people. No changes needed in my opinion. --Stella |   |   | 14477 | Dhurwa Gond |   | Dhurwa Gond - duru1236 - pci. Lat Lon 18.75, 81.78.   |   |   |   |   |   |   | SONG ID: 3778 is the only outlier of the 12 songs assigned to Dhurwa Gond -- it has a much more northerly latitude, and is adjacent to the songs grouped under society name "Northern Gondi", below. But, unless someone else thinks its likely the society name "Dhurwa Gond" was misassigned, I suggest ignoring this outlier (i.e., leaving Song 3778 assigned to Dhurwa Gond).   |   | Issue32d | Kate | NO CHANGES: |   |   |     | Why west2408 as opposed to muri1262 (language currently assigned to this society)? --Stella |   |   | 21924 | Muria Gond |   | No changes. Muria Gond - west2408 - emu. Match to EA society Eg13 Muria Gond. Lat Lon 19.2, 81.93   |   |   |   |   |   |   |     |   | Issue32e | Kate | NO CHANGES: |   |   |     |   |   |   | 19031 | Koya |   | No changes. Koya - koya1251 - kff - make sure matched to Eg11
stellasilbert commented 2 years ago

Updated lat-lons for songs 3788, 3789, 3798, 3800. Just picked one of the Ganganpalli villages in Bastar region at random and made note that there is a second location close by.

21924 matched to language west2408 based on D-PLACE.