Events Tab

[Jambrose777]

Hello WST,

Here is a list of items for that I feel like the new events tab should be changed to in order to provide the best quality and clarity for competitors.

Critical (see #3161):

• [x] the events are in the wrong order. They are currently in alphabetical instead of wca event order.
• [x] the multi-blind limit is incorrect. 7 cubes != 70min. Clarifying that. As well a footnote and link to regs may be helpful.
• [x] for a combined round a format includes the secondary format. Since this is not included in the format, it is technically wrong. I’d like to see these two be combined into one. If space is an issue maybe the use of abbreviations and footnotes should be used.
• [x] similar to cutoff and time limit, format should link to the regs defining what it means. A footnote can also help with this.
• [x] the footnotes on cutoffs should not show if not present at a competition.
• [x] the footnotes on cumulative limits should not show if a cumulative limit is not in use for the competition.
• [x] the footnotes in cumulative limits spanning different events should not show if not present at a competition.
• [x] #1821 - indicate whether something is tentative.
• [ ] footnote about 9p, and specifically 9p1 that may overrides topX advancement conditions.

To be discussed:

• [ ] if a competitor limit per event is in use, show the limit.
• [ ] a more correct limit to fewest moves is 80 HTM opposed to 1 hour, though this is not a time limit. A footnote/link to the regs may be helpful here.
• [ ] currently many past competitions have multiple events tabs due to the new one. The information is also not useful post competition to anyone but the result team (who doesn’t need a public tab to view this information) or the org team when preparing the results for wrt. I’d like to see it hidden for any pst competition that has results uploaded.
• [ ] make it a movable tab so that any other tab can be placed first (say information tab).
• [ ] addition information and remarks on page. This would be useful to clarify if a certain combination of events is restricted or information on unofficial events like team blind.
• [ ] if 3x3 is not the main event, have a different event be able to be chosen and displayed first with some indicator that it’s the main event.

Overall improvements to keep in mind:

• [ ] not so much my opinion as it is one that I’ve heard, it doesn’t look “pretty”. It’s hard to really focus on a line and not get the information mixed up. I’m not entirely sure what to do to fix this. We also need a proper mobile view for this.

Please make any necessary changes to the list!

[FatBoyXPC]

Throughout this discussion, can we keep the top post updated?

the events are in the wrong order. They are currently in alphabetical instead of wca event order.

Alphabetical is most definitely the correct order. It's absurd that WCA Event order isn't alphabetical, and when trying to find an event in a list, it makes sense to make it alphabetical.

make it a movable tab so that any other tab can be placed first (say information tab).

I think all of the automatically generated tabs should come first to enforce consistency.

addition information and remarks on page. This would be useful to clarify if a certain combination of events is restricted or information on unofficial events like team blind.

Right now this information isn't stored in the "Manage Events" area in a competition. I'd like to keep the discussion of the Events tab scoped to what we currently do support. Stuff like this should be in the "Information" box on the main page (General Info tab).

[Jambrose777]

Alphabetical is most definitely the correct order. It's absurd that WCA Event order isn't alphabetical, and when trying to find an event in a list, it makes sense to make it alphabetical.

The delegates voted on this a year or so ago. The correct order is the order that the WCA lists the events in. Consistency with the rest of the website is important.

[viroulep]

I've just sorted a bit more the bullets in the original post, as I think some are critical and should be addressed asap, whereas others are definitely open (to discussion, or implementation-wise).

A few comments on the points: I've started some wording improvements in #3161, and I believe some of your comments were written before so just to make sure:

for a combined round a format includes the secondary format. Since this is not included in the format, it is technically wrong. I’d like to see these two be combined into one. If space is an issue maybe the use of abbreviations and footnotes should be used.

I'm honestly not sure I got this right, but do you mean that currently only the format for the second phase is shown for combined round? If so it is taken care of in #3161.

the multi-blind limit is incorrect. 7 cubes != 70min.

Yes it's also in #3161.

I'll update #3161 with the few other critical updates and mark them as done here when I push them in the PR, hopefully they'll all be fixed soon.

For the more "open" bullet points:

if a competitor limit per event is in use, show the limit.

I agree that would make sense to display this information, but do we actually have this in the website? (I don't think so yet :s)

a more correct limit to fewest moves is 80 HTM opposed to 1 hour, though this is not a time limit. A footnote/link to the regs may be helpful here.

Nit: It's not HTM since rotations are included. But most importantly I think the 1 hour limit makes more sense than the solution length: no one is going to stop you during your attempt when you write a solution with a length > 80, whereas someone will stop you when you reach 1 hour. Also why displaying this specific Regulation when it could also make sense to remind they can't derive the solution from the scramble (for instance), or any other FM-specific Regulation. If the goal is to remind people about specific Regulations for some events, we should definitely think a bit more about what to display and where to put it (a link to event-specific articles could do it).

currently many past competitions have multiple events tabs due to the new one. The information is also not useful post competition to anyone but the result team (who doesn’t need a public tab to view this information) or the org team when preparing the results for wrt. I’d like to see it hidden for any pst competition that has results uploaded.

I (strongly) disagree, this can be used to see what kind of cutoffs, time limits, and advancement conditions were used at previous editions of regular competitions. And these information are simply very important characteristics of a competition, why would you like to hide the well-formatted, localized version of them, and keep a previously written events tab that may not have this traits?! If duplicate tabs is your concerns, I'd be much more in favor of cleaning up the past manually-added tabs. I'd guess we could have a relatively "short" (few hundreds?) list of matching tabs by looking at the tabs which have a title containing "events", among the competitions which have rounds for their events.

make it a movable tab so that any other tab can be placed first (say information tab).

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but if something deserves to be placed before the events information it may also deserves to be somewhat "standard" (such as a proper user-editable information tab instead of the current field).

addition information and remarks on page. This would be useful to clarify if a certain combination of events is restricted or information on unofficial events like team blind.

For the combination of events we would definitely need a way to properly express (in the website) what part of Article Z was used and how, and then indeed it could be a good place of reminding the user about it. Regarding unofficial events: they are simply not part of the competition's events and should not appear on this page.

not so much my opinion as it is one that I’ve heard, it doesn’t look “pretty”.

Yeah more generally we should also make this page more mobile friendly. I simply took the page that was designed quite a few months ago by Jeremy and we never actually tried too much to make it look "great".

[Jambrose777]

Regarding unofficial events: they are simply not part of the competition's events and should not appear on this page.

Agree to disagree. A competition doesn’t have to have everything be official. If there is kilominx at a compeititon, I would like to clearly know that it is being held and all the information regarding format, time limits, rounds, etc that the events tab shows. If it isn’t displayed on this tab I may not even know that the unofficial event is being held until I get to the competition.

[Z4chy]

As an organizer, my main issue with the events page is the lack of customization. I understand that this was done in order to make the site consistent across all competitions, but I would really appreciate more customization.

[Laura-O]

Agree to disagree. A competition doesn’t have to have everything be official. If there is kilominx at a compeititon, I would like to clearly know that it is being held and all the information regarding format, time limits, rounds, etc that the events tab shows. If it isn’t displayed on this tab I may not even know that the unofficial event is being held until I get to the competition.

I think there are many ways to communicate unofficial events outside the events tab. Expecting that (potential) competitors only read the Events page before registering is really unlikely...

Therefore, I agree with Philippe that the page should only be used for WCA official events and we should focus on making this as good as possible atm.

[pedrosino]

@Jambrose777

Agree to disagree. A competition doesn’t have to have everything be official. If there is kilominx at a compeititon, I would like to clearly know that it is being held and all the information regarding format, time limits, rounds, etc that the events tab shows. If it isn’t displayed on this tab I may not even know that the unofficial event is being held until I get to the competition.

But what exactly would be a solution to this? We surely can't think of every possible unofficial event that may be held and have that in the database for people to pick. I think sticking with WCA official events here makes a lot more sense.

@Z4chy

As an organizer, my main issue with the events page is the lack of customization. I understand that this was done in order to make the site consistent across all competitions, but I would really appreciate more customization.

What kind of customization do you mean? The way I see this page is "here's all the necessary standard information about official events that will be held in this competition". Anything outside of that should go in a separate tab.

[FatBoyXPC]

The delegates voted on this a year or so ago.

I must have missed this, can you link me to it? If it's not something we should put in here, a personal email or message would suffice!

If it isn’t displayed on this tab I may not even know that the unofficial event is being held until I get to the competition.

Tough shit, you lose the right to complain once you don't read all of the available information.

[pedrosino]

James: I believe it's this thread https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/wca-delegates/order$20events$20-%22wca-report%22|sort:date/wca-delegates/dVPC9S4841k/zfk_hTpAFgAJ

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 1:11 AM James LaChance notifications@github.com wrote:

The delegates voted on this a year or so ago.

I must have missed this, can you link me to it? If it's not something we should put in here, a personal email or message would suffice!

If it isn’t displayed on this tab I may not even know that the unofficial event is being held until I get to the competition.

Tough shit, you lose the right to complain once you don't read all of the available information.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/thewca/worldcubeassociation.org/issues/3169#issuecomment-410139137, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABy3Tfm5Pe5vxh8CS6STKNMo2DC2M_4Gks5uM81rgaJpZM4VrXtq .

[cubewhiz]

The scheduler allows for custom objects, so I think that it is most appropriate to put unofficial events into the schedule (and not in the events tab).

I also agree with using the WCA Events order instead of alphabetical.

[Jambrose777]

As well, Many championships like to have "Top 16 / Min 4 Europeans" or "Top 10 Europeans" as the advancement condition. I believe this is not currently possible.

[Goosly]

Would it be possible to make this Event tab optional for "basic" users? It seems like it's mostly useful for the WRT anyway.

More information = more competitors not reading everything (and thus, skipping the essential information).

[FatBoyXPC]

@Goosly from a delegate and organizer standpoint, I find it very annoying that I need to setup the events in the "Manage Events" page and create a whole separate page where I list everything. Duplication always leads to something being wrong, too.

[Goosly]

@FatBoyXPC I've never created the list of events that's generated now and no competitor has ever asked me for such a list. That information is all in the schedule.

I'm not asking to remove it, I'm asking to make it optional: you can use it, and I won't :-)

[FatBoyXPC]

The fact that one of the complaints is "Now old competitions have 2 Events tabs" shows that plenty of other people create that tab, too. The Schedule doesn't give you an overview of what events are available, and what tentative events are available.

[cubewhiz]

Since the application of the scheduler will cease the need for manually created schedule tabs, I'd rather keep the Events tab for all users.

[Jambrose777]

Could we possibly add what Bo2, Ao5, etc... mean in the format footnote section? More specifically if its possible to define only what appears in the the events (so if I only list Bo2 and Ao5 in my events, it won't list definitions for bo1, mo3, bo3).

[FatBoyXPC]

I don't think the last bit there is necessary (restricting the footnotes to relevancy from the applied events).

[Jambrose777]

I don't think the last bit there is necessary (restricting the footnotes to relevancy from the applied events).

If I as a competitor see something along the lines of: Bo1 = Best of 1, Bo2 = Best of 2, Bo3 = Best of 3, Mo3 = Mean of 3, Ao5 = Average of 5 (where the best and worst times are not counted, averaging the middle 3). Makes it very confusing if the schedule only mentions the use of Ao5.

[FatBoyXPC]

That can be solved with how we display the information. Something along the lines of "click here to see the available formats"

[coder13]

Reporting a bug: When you have 2 (or more, didn't check) rounds that are using a single cumulative time limit and you delete one of the 2 rounds, the other event doesn't correctly update knowing you removed that round.

Say you setup 4bld and 5bld to be using a single cumulative time limit, remove 5bld, 4bld will still think it's time limit is 4bld + 5bld rounds 1.

photos:

[viroulep]

@coder13 thanks, I've moved your bug to its own issue (#3254) as it's not related to the events tab per say, but to the manage events page.

[Goosly]

Not sure if I should post here or make new issues, but anyway:

1. Manage schedule - minor bug: A Final can (timewise) be before a First round. This should be forbidden. (edit: see https://github.com/thewca/worldcubeassociation.org/issues/3335)
2. Manage schedule - feature request: Please add the Custom activity "Tutorial for new competitors". This is a very common activity and deserves to be in the list we can choose from.

[viroulep]

For 2 you can already do so, just select "other" and fill the "name" with "Tutorial for new competitors". I'd rather stick to implementing the WCIF for this, so if you think the WCIF should change could you please make a separate issue for this?