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thunderbird / autoconfig

The ISPDB, Thunderbird's database of mail configuration files.
https://autoconfig.thunderbird.net/v1.1/
Mozilla Public License 2.0
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Add config for purelymail.com #86

Closed darealdemayo closed 5 months ago

cketti commented 9 months ago

Hi @darealdemayo

Why do you think we should add a config for purelymail.com to ISPDB? They're already doing the right thing by hosting their own config under https://autoconfig.purelymail.com/mail/config-v1.1.xml.

darealdemayo commented 9 months ago

Purelymail offers mail services for custom domains. Thunderbird does not query MXDOMAIN for autoconfig and according to your lead dev you will never do it because DNS is insecure. (hint: all of email relies on MXdomain so that argument is bullshit, but I guess you won't listen to me) Thunderbird only queries MAILDOMAIN for autoconfig, so the purelymail autoconfig is worthless for users with custom domains. (most of them)

According to your matrix channel, this is the solution. (hint: ISPDB also relies on DNS to work so this is equally insecure) Otherwise users would have to host autoconfig on maildomain, which is hard for most users.

This is why I think you should add it.

May I ask: did you think purelymail only offers @purelymail.com addresses or did you also not know that Thunderbird only queries MAILDOMAIN but never MXDOMAIN for smtp.* and autoconfig? I certainly never thought this would be the case. If you also think this is dumb, pls bring it up internally, maybe people will listen to you.

cketti commented 9 months ago

The relevant bug seems to be https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711472. We'll discuss what to do about this in the team.

In the meantime, you (I'm assuming you're affiliated with Purelymail) could support custom domains by asking your customers to point autoconfig.MAILDOMAIN to Purelymail's autoconfig web server.

darealdemayo commented 9 months ago

Will all due respect, that bug is 12 years old and your lead developer stated in matrix that you will never make that change.

Just pointing autoconfig.*`to autoconfig.MXHOST is not possible because MXHOST would have to serve with certificates that match the custom domains. Currently TB accepts configs via HTTP too, so I discussed using this as workaround, but according to your lead dev, this will be removed ASAP, so this is not a viable option long term.

Aside from confusion regarding how Thunderbird autoconfig actually works, is there any reason for why merging purelymail into ISPDB would be a problem?

You have many entries in your list which also have autoconfig configured for them, but their custom domains still rely on ISPDB. The sole reason of ISPDB is to offer a source of configs not just for Thunderbird, but for also "others", so I feel like the logical thing would be to add as much providers as possible, regardless of whether they already have or could configure autoconfig.

I'm not affiliated with purelymail btw.

cketti commented 9 months ago

Will all due respect, that bug is 12 years old and your lead developer stated in matrix that you will never make that change.

I don't think anyone can make a statement that a particular change will never be made to Thunderbird.

Just pointing autoconfig.*`to autoconfig.MXHOST is not possible because MXHOST would have to serve with certificates that match the custom domains.

I agree that this requires additional work on the email provider's side. But it's far from impossible.

Currently TB accepts configs via HTTP too, so I discussed using this as workaround, but according to your lead dev, this will be removed ASAP, so this is not a viable option long term.

We definitely should remove support for HTTP. But I don't think it'll be happening without a publicly communicated deprecation period.

Aside from confusion regarding how Thunderbird autoconfig actually works, is there any reason for why merging purelymail into ISPDB would be a problem?

You have many entries in your list which also have autoconfig configured for them, but their custom domains still rely on ISPDB. The sole reason of ISPDB is to offer a source of configs not just for Thunderbird, but for also "others", so I feel like the logical thing would be to add as much providers as possible, regardless of whether they already have or could configure autoconfig.

The purpose of ISPDB is somewhat under-specified. I believe ISPDB should only include configs for popular email providers that don't host their own config. In an ideal world ISPDB would not have to exist. But right now that's just my personal opinion. We'll have a discussion about what we want ISPDB to be and then document the outcome.

darealdemayo commented 9 months ago

The setup of purelymail actually makes it impossible to serve this at custom domains. It's also highly unreasonable to ask this. Every other mail client queries MXDOMAIN, but I have discussed this topic for a long time with many of your devs and nothing changed. The suggestion I got from your lead dev was to add it to ISPDP. And yet you suddenly decided it's better to reopen a 12 year old bugreport to discuss it again? You are part of Thunderbird team long enough that you should know that most bug discussions end in inactivity and are forgotten for years until someone reports them again - exactly what happened here for 12 years already...

My argument still holds, you already have other providers (eg: gmx) in there even though they host their own config. Adding purelymail won't hurt. Please merge this.

ISPDB practical purpose is mainly to fix the problem TB devs created by not querying MXDOMAIN, so please allow me to use it that way, especially since many of your devs seemed to suggest exactly that when I last discussed it.

darealdemayo commented 8 months ago

At least two new entries have been added or edited last month and this still hasn't been accepted. One of the added/edited entries is even .ru

I question whether it makes sense to support warmongers while refusing the same service to users of purelymail.com? I also question what is the problem here.

Your comments regarding the purpose of ISPDB go directly against what benbucksch described.

Your comments regarding discussing the autoconfig and HTTPS go directly against your devs consensus in matrix.

You clearly stated that you block this pullrequest due to your own personal opinion. Thus, I would like to request someone else to look at this and make a decision.

cketti commented 7 months ago

Checking the email provider's autoconfig URL after an MX lookup (see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711472) has been implemented and the functionality is available in Thunderbird Daily.

cketti commented 5 months ago

The provider is supporting Autoconfig and with the change to Thunderbird automatic setup should now also work for custom domains without any infrastructure changes.

Closing this because there's no need to add the config to ISPDB.