Is it possible to make infiltration status expire?

[nevill-spb]

This is less of an "issue" and more of a feature request, or at least an inquiry about the possibility of one.

It is no secret that infiltration is one of the most powerful actions a probe can conduct. Games are won and lost on the back of this. But it makes no sense that a single probe sneaking in in the early game offers a permanent infiltration until the end of the game. It also devalues the importance of the planetary governorship.

Is it possible to make the infiltration expire? As I recall, the scenario editor has an option for whether a faction has infiltrated another. Is it just a matter of setting a parameter then?

My idea is to make an optional setting for an infiltration to expire in 20 turns after the last one (consistent with the Governorship bonus).

(possibly, I'd like even more, like a probe setting influencing the speed of the counter - halving the time at +2 and doubling it at -2, but I want to know if it is possible at all as proof-of-concept)

Again, this is of utmost importance in MP games, since having full information on your opponent all the time forever is too much of an advantage, and contributes to the tactics where an overwhelming force is used to penetrate lightly defended points the attacker knows about.

[tnevolin]

Amazing! I was just thinking about the same exactly thing for the past few days just looking to where I should put it in the priority list.

This is a simple flag that can be set/cleared. However, the problem is that game doesn't keep infiltration turn. So it should find its place somewhere to be stored and kept through turns including the save. That is uncharted territory.

I have a counter proposal that simplifies implementation. Remember the Master of Orion where they use a notion of infiltrator spies and counter-spies fighting infiltrators? The more counter-spies one deploys the more chances on exposing infiltrator. We may do something like that. There is a random chance infiltration expires every turn. By default the average infiltration time could be 20 turns as you proposed. It highly fluctuates around the average, though, you understand. The infiltrated faction PROBE rating modifies that chance simulating more or less active search for infiltrator. All the above requires only single turn check. No need to remember and store anything extra in saves. How does that sound?

[nevill-spb]

I am doubtful about PROBE influencing that. It seems quite non transpired to user. Also the base for exploit if only the turn on which you infiltrated affects the whole duration. However, the problem is that game doesn't keep infiltration turn. Keeping the turn is unnecessary.

What I had in mind is... Say, infiltrating a faction sets a certain counter at 1000. Each turn the counter decreases by 50. When the counter hits 0 or less, the infiltration expires. Now, the PROBE rating can make the counter tick faster or slower, and it will not depend on what turn a faction was infiltrated, but what the PROBE setting are for the whole span of the infiltration.

(actually, I think 20 turns is too generous during midgame; I dunno, maybe a base of 10 would be better)

I thought the game already keeps track of who infiltrated whom (there are corresponding checks in the Scenario Editor), so if the ranges for those variables could be expanded they can work as counters.

Your idea is, admittedly, easier to implement. Sooo... 1 PROBE, 5 years on average? So -2 PROBE takes ~30 years to expire, while +2 takes ~10 years. Or do you want to take extreme values into account (PROBE only ranges from -2 to +3, but it can go as low as -4 or as high as +6)?

It'd be nice to see the stat do more than it currently does.

[tnevolin]

Yes. Game keeps the status of infiltration but no other associated info like when it happened or alternative counter as you proposed. So it would be a headache to think where to stick it in the game binary.

Yes, I thought each rating adds/subtracts 5 years from 20 turns average. No, I don't want to take extreme values into account as they are truncated in most places in game and I think this is the right design. Otherwise, if values beyond limits provide some extra benefit they should be described as such in Datalinks.

These values above are just averages in case player keeps their rating constant. In practice, current rating will just modify the probability of infiltration to expire on this turn. So say default value is 1/20 and rating modifies it up and down.

I think we also need some popup to notify about expiration.

[tnevolin]

Extending the PROBE scale would be a separate discussion. It is not easy to do it as it is quite unilinear scale already. What is the seeming point to go beyond +3 when it is already provides maximum protection?

[nevill-spb]

Otherwise, if values beyond limits provide some extra benefit they should be described as such in Datalinks.

I can counter with EFFIC and PLANET, both of which are capped in their description, but provide benefit beyond the SE screen (energy conservation and Psi bonuses, respectively). PROBE could work on a similar principle without extending the scale.

What is the seeming point to go beyond +3 when it is already provides maximum protection?

What is the point of going beyond +4 EFFIC if you can already adjust the sliders perfectly and are at maximum efficiency? Obviously, the benefits of EFFIC are not limited to sliders alone, and energy efficiency doesn't have a maximum. PROBE effects could feature in other formulas. If we are talking probabilities as you suggest, those don't need to have a hard cap. Instead a +6 PROBE rating (which is all but impossible to get except for Believers and in mods) could give you a mathematical expectation of an infiltration lasting for 2 turns, or bring your chances to expunge it to 60% per turn, or whatever, depending on the formula you'll be using.

[tnevolin]

Otherwise, if values beyond limits provide some extra benefit they should be described as such in Datalinks.

I can counter with EFFIC and PLANET, both of which are capped in their description, but provide benefit beyond the SE screen (energy conservation and Psi bonuses, respectively). PROBE could work on a similar principle without extending the scale.

What is the seeming point to go beyond +3 when it is already provides maximum protection?

What is the point of going beyond +4 EFFIC if you can already adjust the sliders perfectly and are at maximum efficiency? Obviously, the benefits of EFFIC are not limited to sliders alone, and energy efficiency doesn't have a maximum. PROBE effects could feature in other formulas. If we are talking probabilities as you suggest, those don't need to have a hard cap. Instead a +6 PROBE rating (which is all but impossible to get except for Believers and in mods) could give you a mathematical expectation of an infiltration lasting for 2 turns, or bring your chances to expunge it to 60% per turn, or whatever, depending on the formula you'll be using.

Mmm. Yes. I think we could with some restriction anyway to not divide on zero. Should be pretty linear formula.

[tnevolin]

Done in 170. Feel free to create more tasks on further modifications as needed.