[18Mag + expansion] CIWL company allows to sell double share.

[queroscia]

Game https://18xx.games/game/160016 has a bug (two bugs really, linked.)

There is a long discussion on the log, where the rules have been quoted and even we have a Lonny Orgler's clarification (see from SR5, at 10:00 am of today).

Company CIWL has 20% certificates instead of 10%, as all other companies. When three players bought consecutively a share, and only remained the 40% of director, the program allowed the four player to buy the director certificate. It is a bug.

Rules say: "As usual the director share must not be purchased directly. It must be changed if one player owns two 20% shares. If all 20% shares are in players hands and no 20% share is available for purchase, a player may trade in his 20% share into the 40% director share. He just has to pay for the other half of the director's share."

So, fourth player shouldn't be able to purchase any share (as the only share on the market is the director one, and it is not allowed by the rules to be purchased at once.) So, the first player should have the turn again, and should be able to buy other 20%, exchanging the first 20% share and the new 20% share by the 40% certificate, but here is the second bug, because, if you make that, the program gives directly to the first player the remaining 40% director certificate, and don't make the exchange. So, first player would have from 20% to 60% directly. The company is selling again the director certificate directly.

I have asked directly Lonny Orgler for this issue and he has answered: "Its a bug. Everybody only buys 20% shares. The first person with two 20% shares exchange them into the 40% director share. "

Thank you very much,

Enrique Trigueros.

[roseundy]

Can you cut and paste the appropriate comments from the log? That is private information that no-one besides the players can see.

[queroscia]

[11:53] bad company: Huh. The last one is double? [11:53] bad company: Random! [12:09] queroscia: According the rules wording, my interpretation is that @bad commpany shouldn't be able to purchase directly the director certificate. So, it would be a bug. [12:10] queroscia: You can only buy one SHARE per round, not certificate. Director certificate counts as two shares. [12:11] queroscia: Now, in my turn, I could buy another 20%, exchanging my 20%, and my new 20% with the director certificate. [12:12] queroscia: And @bad company shouldn't be able to purchase CIWL shares since there aren't 20% available certificates. [12:13] queroscia: Rules say: As usual the director share must not be purchased directly. It must be changed if one player owns two 20% shares. If all 20% shares are in players hands and no 20% share is available for purchase, a player may trade in his 20% share into the 40% director share. He just has to pay for the other half of the director's share. [12:14] queroscia: In any case, I have just now written to Lonny and I am waiting for his answer. [12:15] bad company: things getting serious. [12:15] queroscia: I am waiting his answer, and I will tell you what he says. [12:15] queroscia: According his answer, we will report a bug or we continue playing. [12:17] queroscia: I should be the director of CIWL, in my humble opinion. [12:17] queroscia: Because I was the first buying shares there. [12:17] bad company: not coming of as particularly humble, but sure, let's play by the rules [12:17] bad company: yes yes... [12:20] bad company: I never said I had a god-given right to it. Nor did I desire this wall of text. [12:20] bad company: Let's wait and see. Thx for asking Lonny. [12:22] queroscia: Sorry for all my long comments. I only wanted to explain why I think it is a bug. [12:22] queroscia: I am not angry, I am not on a bad mood. [12:23] queroscia: Sorry if my English is a bit poor and I am not able to explain (and understand) better some things. [12:25] bad company: Found the expansion rules. Director of CIWL is also not available directly. Let me fudge using master mode so we get what should have happened, i.e., q gets director and I get 20%. [12:25] bad company: Still should file a bug. [12:26] bad company: Done. (Sorry about notification spam.) [12:27] bad company: It is now like everyone bought one CIWL and q was first to buy a second. [12:27] bad company: (Fortunately it did not lower the price.) [12:27] bad company: We can of course also revert and wait for a bug fix. Or end. As everyone desires. [12:29] bad company: @queroscia: you ok like this? [12:30] bad company: everyone else? I'd argue that this is best option, cause there is a bug and fix will take a while. Also could be impossible to continue the game. [12:30] bad company: Wonder what happens with more players? [12:31] bad company: Hmm, actually, maybe I could not buy 20%. It should be left for Moppersmurf cause during my turn there was only director available. Ok, I give up. Don't know how to best fix. [12:32] bad company: Let me revert and leave it to discussion. [12:33] queroscia: @bad company, Lonny answers: Its a bug. Everybody only buys 20% shares. The first person with two 20% shares exchange them into the 40% director share. [12:33] bad company: This is right before the problem. I could not legally buy director nor 20% I guess. So I'd buy something else. [12:33] queroscia: And also add: Another bug: If a train runs from red to red, the bonus is added to the income AND is paid to the treasury of the company. [12:33] queroscia: I am reporting these two bugs. [12:33] bad company: +1 [12:34] bad company: Shall we try to fudge a way of continuing this? [12:34] bad company buys a 10% share of LdStEG from the market for 100 Ft [12:35] Moppersmurf: Think i missed a long conversation [12:35] bad company: Yep. [12:35] bad company: /my own wall of text. :D [12:35] bad company: Short: There are bugs with CIWL. [12:36] bad company: E.g. I could buy director during my last action. But not by the actual rules. [12:36] queroscia: I would leave as it is now. The second bug, well, we will have to live with it. [12:37] queroscia: This expansion has another bug with the supporters, reported so long time ago and nobody has fixed the bug. [12:37] Moppersmurf: Yes i see . If it cannot be fixed , play with workaround (no one buys it) ir stop? [12:37] queroscia: I think it is not well coded, and nobody pay attention on GitHub to this game. [12:37] Moppersmurf: Or stop? [12:39] queroscia: Well... Another bug: if I Buy the second 20% for being director, the program directly gives me the remaining 40%, having 60% directly, instead of 40%. [12:39] queroscia: See: [12:39] queroscia buys a 40% share of CIWL from the market for 110 Ft [12:39] queroscia becomes the president of CIWL [12:40] queroscia: Taking the last bug detected, it is a pity but I think we should leave the game here. [12:41] queroscia: I am going to report the bugs. [12:41] queroscia: What about @bad company @Moppersmurf @Mana? [12:42] bad company: We could all pass and you sell one CIWL (assuming one of us wants it). Then approximately fudged? [12:51] queroscia: I am not understanding well, @bad company [12:51] queroscia: Sorry [12:51] queroscia: Do you mean I buy one and all the rest players pass? [12:53] bad company: I mean everyone else passes once, then you sell 20% and pass to Moppersmurf. Then it is as if you had just bought the second 20% which got you the director. [12:53] bad company: Let me do it... [12:54] • Action(pass) via Master Mode by: bad company [12:54] Moppersmurf passes [12:54] • Action(pass) via Master Mode by: bad company [12:54] Mana passes [12:54] bad company passes [12:54] • Action(sell_shares) via Master Mode by: bad company [12:54] queroscia sells a 20% share of CIWL and receives 55 Ft [12:54] • Action(pass) via Master Mode by: bad company [12:54] queroscia declines to buy shares [12:54] bad company: Now, this is (mostly) what correct situation would have been. [12:55] queroscia: Well, it is fine for me. [12:55] bad company: I'll definitely buy CIWL if it comes to me. So we are pretty much correct (for this bug at least). [12:59] Moppersmurf buys a 20% share of CIWL from the market for 55 Ft [12:59] Moppersmurf: Ok for me [15:19] Mana: Oh wow I missed a lot. [15:20] Mana: Looks like everyone is happy with the fix so I’ll just take my turn.