[Vote advertisements thread] Stop asking for ad-block deactivation

[azalty]

Suggestion

It's just fukin' annoying. Privacy is a thing, and if I don't want google to grab my data and create a lot of traking cookies, it's my choice.

[14ROVI]

+1

[txj-xyz]

+1

[Misly16]

+1

[justsharan]

Part of the revenue generated from the ads on the bot vote page seem to go to the developers. I find it ridiculous that upvoters are being inconvenienced just to squeeze out more money for the bot developer and top.gg itself. Bigger bots now have an advantage in the auctions system, since they get money from their upvotes.

According to Marco's site, the Mudae bot received 5 million upvotes at the end of October. Thus, Mudae would have received $5,000 to spend in November auctions. Dank Memer received 1.4 million upvotes in October, which would give it $1,400 to spend in November auctions.

The bigger bots will grow more through the auctions system, resulting in more upvotes, giving them even more money to spend the next month. This vicious cycle will continue, putting smaller bots at a great disadvantage.

Requiring users to disable their adblocker just to upvote makes them less likely to do so, since it is more work. This is detrimental to smaller bots, which rely on upvotes to grow their bot to more servers. The larger ones can easily survive through this, due to their increased advertising power (as mentioned before), but that's not true for smaller ones.

Not to mention, this leads to a major invasion of users' privacy. Top.gg already scores badly in their user privacy grade, due to their use of Google AdSense, ReCaptcha, and other privacy-invading services. This new feature knocks it out of the park due to obvious reasons.

What can top.gg do?
Here are some solutions, but they're more like putting a band-aid on the larger problem at hand than anything.

• Limit the amount of credit that large bots can earn through the credits system. This already mentioned in #458, so I'll let the discussion occur there.
• Allow individual developers to disable the ads for their bot. If they feel that the mandatory adblocker-disabling drives users away from upvoting, they can disable it to mitigate that (also shows they care about their users, right).

[oliver-ni]

I find it annoying that this change was made partly to "benefit the developers" by giving them auctions credit, but we developers were never polled about whether we would want something like this, and never asked for it in the first place.

In addition, the developers aren't really benefiting from this in the first place. The bot developers aren't getting money. They are getting credits, which are artificially created and don't cost Top.gg anything, since they just cause bids to increase to reflect them. It's only changing the distribution to take more money from smaller bots and less from bigger ones, which is the exact opposite of what should be done.

[AlaRubra123]

I mean, I'm never gonna vote for any bots if I have to disable my adblock. I'm also developing a bot myself, that I was hoping to list on top.gg at some point. As long as this is in place, that's never gonna happen.

[Willow-Tabby]

How do you vote towards issues on github? Because yeah, this new development is stupid and is going to end in unfairly snowball-benefitting larger bots, plus the privacy invasion issue

[crazygmr101]

How do you vote towards issues on github? Because yeah, this new development is stupid and is going to end in unfairly snowball-benefitting larger bots, plus the privacy invasion issue

@Willow-Tabby offer extra feedback on the suggestion, give a thumbs up, etc.

[Shirra2006]

yes, pls remove the ads, it is extremely inconvenient. Sometimes, I want to vote on my TV and it does not work 😥

[Willow-Tabby]

How do you vote towards issues on github? Because yeah, this new development is stupid and is going to end in unfairly snowball-benefitting larger bots, plus the privacy invasion issue

@Willow-Tabby offer extra feedback on the suggestion, give a thumbs up, etc.

Ah, right-o. In that case then, I may as well state that I made a github account purely to vote on this issue.

[Nubo318]

I'm less likely to vote on a bot if it requires me doing extra stuff, in this case disabling my ad-block, which to top it off also invades my privacy. Please change this.

[SgtLeppard]

I similarly have made an account solely for this purpose. My issue with having to disable my AdBlock is less to do with data collection, though I very much do not appreciate my data being collected like that, and more to do with the safety of my computer

There have been way too many times where the computer I've used [and there have been a few] caught very bad viruses from ads shown on sites I frequent -- and these are safe sites, I know that for certain. It's the ad companies I cannot trust as malicious ads are all too often slipped in and do damage without me doing a thing. AdBlock, as well as my antivirus programs, allow me to remain safe while online. Even just pausing AdBlock for a minute puts me at risk because of the large amounts of ads that top.gg loads every time I go to vote for a bot on their site

In short, not only is this a massive violation of users' privacy, but also puts them at risk of encountering malicious ads that they may not be able to do anything about. If top.gg refuses to change this, I strongly suggest bot developers find a different voting site to use

[Suirieko]

Absolutely not needed at all. You are screwing over the smaller developers and the user base with this terrible move. Please get rid of it.

[738rjkr8e]

Those adds are very annoying and get my device lagging. This against our privacy. I don't want to see those adds when I vote for bots. It's taking my time and getting me angry. Top.gg have to get rid of those adds. Otherwise people will stop using this website or switch other one.

[azriel423]

I watched adds for over 10 minutes now, without the possibility to vote! In case of an activated Add Block I can't vote. So for me this means practically you don't want anyone to vote anymore, just to watch the add videos (including youtube Adds!!!) top.gg isn't useable anymore!

[RaidAndFade]

The ads do not benefit developers who do not want to bid on auctions, and only profit top.gg. This is not a "shared income" system, the only person profiting here is top.gg. Users will vote less because of this, big bots will get bigger, small bots will be hidden at the bottom and nobody will vote for them. I'm not sure how this idea even passed brainstorm phase.

[Snodia]

I do agree with the others that having to turn off adblocker is annoying, though I am not completely opposed to doing so to vote as long as there is actually a chance to be able to vote for the bot(s) that the user choses to vote for. At this current moment, people can sit there for a long indeterminate amount of time and still never get past the "You will be able to vote after this ad." phase. I, personally, have sat through a full video of less than 2 minutes but it also included an ad over it every like 5 seconds (even when you don't skip the ad).

So, solutions would be... let us be able to use adblocker again or if we HAVE to turn off adblocker, give a singular ad (that might have the ability to be skipped) and leave it at that.

[LugiaDepression]

They closed my ticket because they felt like it and it shows a lot about their lack of care for these reports, but people have different type of issues with the ads. Mines are endless. My friend's phone' inside/basic browser has a basic adblocker and so only a text appears to them saying turn it off. But my friend doesn't even sure if it's a feature able to be turned off in the first place (and are not comfortable and won't [same as me] lower the security of the device they're doing bank transaction and other cash transfers on). Other people can't even see the ads, they see literally nothing, because the ads aren't allowed in their region (it showed up with vpn). So how about instead of s/crewing the users up the devs just pulls the cash (which they gets from the ads) from the bot devs instead, because they are the ones who forces us to vote (it's the case with tatsu bot, you're forced to vote to get a special bot currency which otherwise you couldn't get if you don't do the super expensive, time and energy consuming project of a pet thing).

[14ROVI]

Mine are endless.

Same, there is no skip button and after one as has completed it just shows another one.. I never get a chance to vote for the bot and I don't even have any ad-blocker - just a phone (OnePlus 7 pro running chrome)

[Xignotic84]

They closed my ticket because they felt like it and it shows a lot about their lack of care for these reports, but people have different type of issues with the ads. Mines are endless. My friend's phone' inside/basic browser has a basic adblocker and so only a text appears to them saying turn it off. But my friend doesn't even sure if it's a feature able to be turned off in the first place (and are not comfortable and won't [same as me] lower the security of the device they're doing bank transaction and other cash transfers on). Other people can't even see the ads, they see literally nothing, because the ads aren't allowed in their region (it showed up with vpn). So how about instead of s/crewing the users up the devs just pulls the cash (which they gets from the ads) from the bot devs instead, because they are the ones who forces us to vote (it's the case with tatsu bot, you're forced to vote to get a special bot currency which otherwise you couldn't get if you don't do the super expensive, time and energy consuming project of a pet thing).

I closed your issue to allow for a single place for content and issues regarding this new update so that the development team can access all the issues and concerns in one place. They are linked here and brought up here. Otherwise we would end up having dozens of tickets with similar issues. Everything within this thread gets reviewed by the team and are currently being used to consider what to do moving forward. We really appreciate the feedback that you guys are giving regarding the issue. We're just handling it to help manage the amount of issues and make it digestible for the team.

[Darkflame72]

+1 for this.

Firstly I as well as others have massive issues with privacy and having google run unstoppable ads is terrible privacy practice so if you are going to be running ads related to developers at least do it ethically using ethicalads.io or another privacy based advertising platform that respects user privacy and data.

Secondly, making users watch an unskippable ad is not a fun experience for anyone involved, ask anyone who has to watch YouTube and the most despised thing would be those ads.

Thirdly, this system is massively skewed towards massive bots with them getting a massive amount of votes which would give them a massive advantage in the auction space leaving smaller bots not able to get the number of votes and hence the auction credits. This means that this system only give an advantage to larger bots and increased revenue for top.gg under the guise of helping bot developers.

Giving developers the option to opt-out of this system or going back to the old system which did not cause massive issues for the users and make them to want to vote increasing the visibility of the bots.

[Peter-Maguire]

I can understand the want for people to disable adblock, the site costs money to run. However, the 3 second ad is way too much friction. It's hard enough to get people to vote as it is, and since the ad was added in I've seen next to no votes come in. Obviously I don't know about the site's expenses but surely the auction system is way more lucrative than these ads?

[glabadie2001]

+1 This is the most blatant money-grabbing "feature" added so far until there is a way to withdraw the money. Only the biggest bots see true benefits from this, and even then all of the money gained goes right back to you guys. You're stifling the growth of smaller bots for profit's sake. On top of that, the launch was dropped on us with no warning and has major issues that don't even let a lot of people vote.

I'm disappointed. I hoped that with auctions you guys would get your share of money on top of the existing ads, but you clearly only want more and more. If you're willing to go so far as to require that users disable Adblock to vote AND are pushing out a subscription service on top of all of this, where do you draw the line?

[MordoEla]

+1

I've been trying to vote since yesterday and I just can't, unfortunately, I lost my voting combos. They place these ads, but they don't really help developers – big or small? This is slutty...

[maiacodes]

I think the new voting systems is very flawed. I've my amount of daily voters fall because of the endless ad walls. These new changes only benefit large bots and forces smaller ones down the listings. Please reverse these changes or at least give developers the option to disable the ad wall.

[Ries-O]

I watched adds for over 10 minutes now, without the possibility to vote! In case of an activated Add Block I can't vote. So for me this means practically you don't want anyone to vote anymore, just to watch the add videos (including youtube Adds!!!) top.gg isn't useable anymore!

Same problem, I can't vote whatever I try....

[WolvesMyth]

I've had the ads since yesterday, and I was able to vote after going through one ad. Today, I tried voting for Poketwo, and it forced me to disable my adblocker, which I hate disabling, and I got bombarded with over 20 minutes of ads, not ever getting the chance to vote once. TopGG doesn't seem they care about the site anymore and are just money hungry idiots that can't code right so we get thousands of ads, or either they know what they're doing just so they can squeeze as much money out of the ads as possible. It's just stupid.

[Roki100]

why play a video while voting, not display a banner or something that doesnt annoy(and slow down the voting process) that much tho?

[GoldenAngel2]

This change from top.gg web team is just stupid and can/will drive away developers. While yes you get credit to something else part of their system majority of the developers listed on the site doesn't use it. So forcing their users to watch an ad EVERY time they vote is just a stupid thing to have. top.gg is one of the biggest botlists out there.. it makes no sense why they would want to have this feature for ALL bots.. when majority of them don't even use the auctions system.. and from what I've seen the feature is bugged as hell. And this just adds another thing to the list of broken stuff on top.gg but instead of fixing that you guys add another stupid system to make the site have more issues.

[sawahxpooh]

+1

At least just make the ads 30 seconds and play 1 ad .....for each vote ....I don’t mind watching an ad but I wanna vote after one ad is done not after 100 billion ads for one vote ....

[hburn7]

This is a total bait and switch to both the bot developer and user. Only the largest of bot devs benefit from the "credits" you give us. This is not right, nobody wants this.

[a9ex]

+1

This system is even more profitable for big bots, the number of votes for small/medium bots will drop dramatically and they will have less visibility.

[circuitsacul]

This is ridiculous tbh. The only thing you're doing by adding this system is hurting bot devs because now users aren't going to vote

[Faholan]

Actually, this is the same money-grabbing behaviour which made Youtube put unskippable ads in a row. Everybody was annoyed by that, but now top.gg is even worse :

• You can block Youtube ads, but top.gg requires you to disable your Adblocker, which is clearly against anybody who cares about his or her privacy

• Youtube actually gives people money, whereas top.gg only gives credits that cannot convert into money

• Youtube's ad system actually works 100% of the time

What I think is that top.gg isn't about a community anymore, it's just about grabbing users and squeezing as much money out of them as they can.

[Monoverde888]

I dont care about gaining money with this dumb ad thing, nor i have the legal age to have a credit card or paypal account. So for gods sake, LET ME FUCKING DISABLE THE ADS.

[mmattbtw]

Where was this a good idea? Who asked for this? I originally thought it was a good thing, but now looking back on its not. Paying in "Advertisement Credits" isn't payment, it's a slap to the face to bot developers, Not only is it just not useful to small bot devs, but it benefits people who are already huge in the space! If you get 1000 votes you get $1.00 in advertising credits, if you have been on the Top.gg auctions, you know, spots don't go for $1. Greedy move to make money imo.

Relevant Tweet

[azalty]

Wow, I didn't think there was so much people hating this

Well nice, I think they heard us, but keep fighting, everyone!

[mmattbtw]

Wow, I didn't think there was so much people hating this

Well nice, I think they heard us, but keep fighting, everyone!

well if they don't listen, we can always MOOOOOOVE

[Monoverde888]

discord.boats looks good,

[rikkie2003]

I understand in today’s world people will do anything for money but come on? I can’t even vote now. Tbh I’d rather just get a different game so I don’t have to put up with it.

[velddev]

Just want to make sure that we are following this thread and using it for future decision-making on the matter. For now we're looking into how to make the general flow smoother; as I feel like most of the frustration comes from two parts:

• Ads not working as intended, blocking users from voting
• Forcing users to have AdBlock disabled to vote

For the first one, I wanted to add onto this that if you get stuck watching multiple ads, this has been resolved, try refreshing your browser cache.

While I've learnt a lot from this process, I want to say I do appreciate how vocal the community is about pointing out these issues, and we are working on making this experience as smooth as we can, we do intend to finish our UX test cycle for now.

[Elara-Discord-Bots]

@velddev no one wants the damn ads, if that isn't clear from this thread, why still push for it?

[Elara-Discord-Bots]

All this is showing people that have viewed this thread is you don't really give a shit about their opinions. Considering you're still trying to push a required ad-voting system down everyones throats and then having loads of people come here to express their opinion about the ad-voting system and completely ignoring them and saying "we'll just fix it up" when everyone has expressed that they don't fucking want the stupid system. Hell even Dank Memer had to put out an announcement about your broken ass system and thinking about removing their rewards from your botlist. So congrats on shooting yourself in the damn chest on this decision. 👍

[Elara-Discord-Bots]

You said in the server that you're doing this to grow the business of top.gg, well this isn't the way to do it. Completely fucking over the people that made the botlist feel like a simple place to advertise their servers and bots. Now it's become a shitty place that just want to milk the system that Oliy & Tonkku and the rest of the top.gg staff members worked years to become and you're just throwing it all away.

And from the look of the state of the top.gg server your own staff had no clue wtf was going on with the ad-voting system..

[ValAlpha]

I don't care that you're shitting on me as a developer, I care that you're shitting on my users. The only reason my bot is still on your list is because 90% of my traffic comes from top.gg. I've specifically asked my users not to use the vote feature via top.gg and in return, I'll triple rewards from voting on other sites. I'm only a small bot and I heavily relied on your website but I'd rather grow slow than grow putting money in your pockets. We didn't ask for this. You've created an unpleasant experience for all visitors to the website, Not that it was a great experience anyway. It's just greed on your half.

[TheNoob27]

If you're signed out, the website still gives you an ad, but after you watch the ad it tells you to log in and I assume will give you another ad after you login and try to vote again.

And according to everyone else, the idea wasn't really properly executed.

[SesshyDeSanne]

I personally dont like the way this is going and hated the fact that this whole thing is being taken advantaged of by making a lot of us upset having to deal with this!!! NO NO NO

[Elara-Discord-Bots]

Another example for a money grab...

[kyle-he]

@velddev no one wants the damn ads, if that isn't clear from this thread, why still push for it?

money

[TheCuteFoxxy]

The simple fact that there is no option for the bot owners to disable them on their page shows that it's not designed to help the developers, rather for Top.gg to get more money out of the platform.

If you are gonna keep it, at least give the bot owners the ability to disable it on their bot page.

Top.gg doesn't have to deal with the flack of the people who use the specific bot, the developers, and their staff does.