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TRON Improvement Proposals
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Proposal: enable Stake 2.0 #519

Closed lxcmyf closed 1 year ago

lxcmyf commented 1 year ago

Simple Summary

In order to improve the utilization of network resources and enhance the stability of the TRON network staking system, it is recommended to open the new staking model: Stack 2.0. For more information about the Stake 2.0 mechanism, please refer to TIP-467.

Motivation

Under the current stake mechanism, stake and delegate operations are bound together, and staking and resource management are very complicated. If you want to change the resource delegating recipient, you must unstake first, then make another staking and specify a new recipient. In addition, the unstake operation must wait for 3 days after staking, which means that the obtained resources cannot be delegated to others within 3 days. If the user has already voted before unstaking, the unstake operation will also cause the vote to be automatically canceled.

Therefore, we need to use a new stake mechanism to solve these problems, separate low-frequency stake operations from high-frequency resource delegate operations, and re-delegate resources without unstaking assets, reducing the complexity of staking and resource management. At the same time, the TVM virtual machine supports all instructions related to Stake 2.0, bringing richer application scenarios to the TRON smart contract ecosystem.

Specification

Propose to modify the No.59 and No.70 TRON Network Parameters so that open Stake 2.0,

How to initiate the voting request

Implement Stake 2.0:

Analysis

Here is the TRX staking rate on TRON, image

From the above figure, we can see that the overall staking rate of the network is about 48%. In the future, based on Stake 2.0, more application layer protocols like TRC-484 can be implemented, bringing more application scenarios to the TRON smart contract ecosystem. Furthermore, it promotes the improvement of the network staking rate.

Compatibility

After Stake 2.0 is opened, staking can only be done through Stake2.0 API. The resources already staked and obtained under Stake 1.0 and the votes on the chain are still valid and will not change, and the assets can be redeemed using the unstake method of Stake 1.0. After the proposal takes effect, the Stake 1.0 staking API will return the error message "freeze v2 is open, old freeze is closed".

Moneyversac commented 1 year ago

@lxcmyf The "N" parameter discussion needs to be in its own entirely new TIP and voted on by the SRs. The "N" parameter in this proposal should stay the same (3 days) as it hasn't been specified.

My personal opinion is I am okay with the 3-day stake and nothing more. Anything more becomes very very very user-unfriendly.

Maybe it is a better idea for a user to specify their own "N" lock-up period.

I agree with that approach. Whales usually don't stake for long-term, they usually need to be liquid and 14 days for 5% APY is certainly not appealing to them if they can make 10%+ on a single trade if they are liquid.

3 days are perfect, especially since now the unstaking on 2.0 has to be initialized by the user which makes the 3 days timer start from that point on and does not automatically start upon staking like before.

For me, it's 3 days minimum to max 7 days. More seems to be counterproductive

Dendorion commented 1 year ago

@lxcmyf The "N" parameter discussion needs to be in its own entirely new TIP and voted on by the SRs. The "N" parameter in this proposal should stay the same (3 days) as it hasn't been specified. My personal opinion is I am okay with the 3-day stake and nothing more. Anything more becomes very very very user-unfriendly. Also, big whales don't move their stakes around often. If they want to dump their TRX having a 14-day stake period won't affect that as they are more than likely to have staked TRX for more than a few months and can unstake at any time because they have passed the period many times over. The only thing the "N" parameter will affect is the energy market. Maybe it is a better idea for a user to specify their own "N" lock-up period.

If they want to dump their TRX having a 14-day stake period won't affect that as they are more than likely to have staked TRX for more than a few months and can unstake at any time because they have passed the period many times over.

I think you may misunderstood, In stake 1.0, unstaking can only be done three days later after staking. In stake 2.0, unstaking can be done anytime, after staking, N days needs to be waited before withdrawing.

You can lenghten the days all you want this will not result in whales not dumping . Whales simply will not freeze their assets . As the benefits of a 10% pump for instance overrule a 5% yearly APY . Overall TRX sees not much unfreezing during pice jumps and the dumping from the community is minimal. Price action is happening mostly by Bots and the MM

Jackmrshen commented 1 year ago

@lxcmyf The "N" parameter discussion needs to be in its own entirely new TIP and voted on by the SRs. The "N" parameter in this proposal should stay the same (3 days) as it hasn't been specified. My personal opinion is I am okay with the 3-day stake and nothing more. Anything more becomes very very very user-unfriendly. Maybe it is a better idea for a user to specify their own "N" lock-up period.

I agree with that approach. Whales usually don't stake for long-term, they usually need to be liquid and 14 days for 5% APY is certainly not appealing to them if they can make 10%+ on a single trade if they are liquid.

3 days are perfect, especially since now the unstaking on 2.0 has to be initialized by the user which makes the 3 days timer start from that point on and does not automatically start upon staking like before.

For me, it's 3 days minimum to max 7 days. More seems to be counterproductive

Hey bro, when they suggest to make "N" 14 days, they are taking the #TRC-484 into consideration. If you double check it carefully, you will find that the staked TRX can be tokenized, meaning users can get sTRX or so after they stake TRX. And such sTRX could be traded in DEX like sunswap or somewhere. Then, they can benefit the profit of staking for energy, votes and meanwhile keep the liquidity.

In other words, users no matter whales or retails can all enjoy the APY by staking and hold the liquidity at the same time. And the more important thing to care about is security then.

WalterBrooks commented 1 year ago

I think the unfreeze lock-up time could be set longer because it would provide additional security and protection for the user’s assets. By increasing the lock-up time, it makes it more difficult for hackers or malicious actors to gain access to the user’s TRX in the event that their account is compromised. This is because the longer lock-up time provides the user with more time to take action and prevent unauthorized access to their funds.

Furthermore, a longer lock-up time could also incentivize users to hold their TRX for a longer period of time, which can benefit the overall TRON ecosystem by promoting stability and reducing volatility in the market.

WalterBrooks commented 1 year ago

Well... compared to other public chains, I would say 14-28 days is acceptable, and I prefer to make it 14 days, it will provide both security and flexibility.

Dendorion commented 1 year ago

I think the unfreeze lock-up time could be set longer because it would provide additional security and protection for the user’s assets. By increasing the lock-up time, it makes it more difficult for hackers or malicious actors to gain access to the user’s TRX in the event that their account is compromised. This is because the longer lock-up time provides the user with more time to take action and prevent unauthorized access to their funds.

Furthermore, a longer lock-up time could also incentivize users to hold their TRX for a longer period of time, which can benefit the overall TRON ecosystem by promoting stability and reducing volatility in the market.

Your security and protection point of view makes no sense . Hackers simply stay dormant so you would need to know you are compromised . Or in the simplest case they just transfer your STRX and sell those . Longer lock time will not provide security against such acts .

Jackmrshen commented 1 year ago

I think the unfreeze lock-up time could be set longer because it would provide additional security and protection for the user’s assets. By increasing the lock-up time, it makes it more difficult for hackers or malicious actors to gain access to the user’s TRX in the event that their account is compromised. This is because the longer lock-up time provides the user with more time to take action and prevent unauthorized access to their funds. Furthermore, a longer lock-up time could also incentivize users to hold their TRX for a longer period of time, which can benefit the overall TRON ecosystem by promoting stability and reducing volatility in the market.

Your security and protection point of view makes no sense . Hackers simply stay dormant so you would need to know you are compromised . Or in the simplest case they just transfer your STRX and sell those . Longer lock time will not provide security against such acts .

Yes, N will have nothing to do with hacker attacks. It is not about personnel security, it is only about the chain security. With help of strx, it seems N is no longer an important issue for users. They may set it as long as they wish. We can reduce the risk by strx as long as the pool is deep enough.

Then again, if the N must have a value, as some developers insist, the compromise solution is not bad, 14 days may balance the liquidity and security.

WalterBrooks commented 1 year ago

hi all, when will stake 2.0 go live on mainnet?

lxcmyf commented 1 year ago

hi all, when will stake 2.0 go live on mainnet?

I hope the vote can be initialized recently.

lxcmyf commented 1 year ago

Now the correlated developer tools have already supported Stake 2.0:

mralexgon commented 1 year ago

Are you completely deaf to most of the community users? Why 14 days, and not 5-7 unlocks, as the community wants, and not your manual representatives ??

WalterBrooks commented 1 year ago

Are you completely deaf to most of the community users? Why 14 days, and not 5-7 unlocks, as the community wants, and not your manual representatives ??

3-7 days is old news, developers with this opinion cared about the liquidity of staked TRX, but the implementation of strx in the future will solve this problem. You can find the unstaking period of other public chains is far more longer, setting the value 14 days is a balance of security and flexibility. Now the Stake 2.0 is already on mainnet, and seldom people unstake TRX because they do not have to do this to rent energy any more. It is not a big deal.

mralexgon commented 1 year ago

3-7 days is old news, developers with this opinion cared about the liquidity of staked TRX, but the implementation of strx in the future will solve this problem. You can find the unstaking period of other public chains is far more longer, setting the value 14 days is a balance of security and flexibility. Now the Stake 2.0 is already on mainnet, and seldom people unstake TRX because they do not have to do this to rent energy any more. It is not a big deal.

The fact of the matter is that now everything is like in other public chains ... It was a feature of the throne, a very nice feature for ordinary users. You don't understand - people withdraw trx because they need to earn and live ... and you all care more about whales, as usual. Only moneybags can bury, stake for a long time - is this news to you too? This is also a deterioration in the decentralization of the network, are you pretending not to know this either?

WalterBrooks commented 1 year ago

3-7 дней — это старая новость, разработчики с таким мнением заботились о ликвидности поставленных TRX, но внедрение strx в будущем решит эту проблему. Вы можете обнаружить, что период анстейкинга в других публичных цепочках намного дольше, установка значения 14 дней — это баланс безопасности и гибкости. Теперь Stake 2.0 уже находится в основной сети, и люди редко снимают TRX, потому что им больше не нужно это делать, чтобы арендовать энергию. Это не важно.

The fact of the matter is that now everything is like in other public chains ... It was a feature of the throne, a very nice feature for ordinary users. You don't understand - people withdraw trx because they need to earn and live ... and you all care more about whales, as usual. Only moneybags can bury, stake for a long time - is this news to you too? This is also a deterioration in the decentralization of the network, are you pretending not to know this either?

It is still the unique feature of TRON, and now it is better, I am enjoying the new model. I don't need to withdraw because I can earn by energy, I have income everyday. My TRX is capital to earn money, and I won't unstake. You are so funny, please buy food first before buying TRX. You are right, I don't understand.

mralexgon commented 1 year ago

It is still the unique feature of TRON, and now it is better, I am enjoying the new model. I don't need to withdraw because I can earn by energy, I have income everyday. My TRX is capital to earn money, and I won't unstake. You are so funny, please buy food first before buying TRX. You are right, I don't understand.

These are your words "buy food first before you buy TRX" - there is a motto and the whole point of 14 days of unlocking. It sounds very anti-social and anti-people. Does the TRX really need this?) And your personal approach only speaks of your inability to see beyond your own nose (pocket). "my thrones, my earnings, my...all mine..I..I..I.." And it's not funny at all. My condolences. Oh yeah, you don't understand.

WalterBrooks commented 1 year ago

It is still the unique feature of TRON, and now it is better, I am enjoying the new model. I don't need to withdraw because I can earn by energy, I have income everyday. My TRX is capital to earn money, and I won't unstake. You are so funny, please buy food first before buying TRX. You are right, I don't understand.

These are your words "buy food first before you buy TRX" - there is a motto and the whole point of 14 days of unlocking. It sounds very anti-social and anti-people. Does the TRX really need this?) And your personal approach only speaks of your inability to see beyond your own nose (pocket). "my thrones, my earnings, my...all mine..I..I..I.." And it's not funny at all. My condolences. Oh yeah, you don't understand.

To see beyond my nose, from long-term of view, lock-up time for unstaking is better for the chain, and everyone will benefit from a stable and secure chain. Most users enjoying Stake 2.0 are proving this.

lxcmyf commented 1 year ago

Stake 2.0 has been enabled on TRON mainnet for over a week, and since it went into effect on April 7, TRX staked through Stake 2.0 has shown a rapid increase in volume:

image

At present, the staked volume on the entire TRON network is 43,836,738,909 TRX, which is a decrease of 1.15% compared with that before the proposal took effect. The staked volume of Stake 1.0 is 41,189,796,123 TRX, a decrease of 7.12%. While the amount of staked TRX in Stake 1.0 has dropped sharply, the total staked amount of TRX has hardly changed, which indicates that more and more staked TRX are switching from Stake 1.0 to Stake 2.0:

image

After the proposal took effect, the number of daily bandwidth delegation transactions and the number of energy delegation transactions showed a continuous growth trend:

image

Let me summarize the overall data performance after Stake 2.0 took effect. While the total volume of staked TRX has not changed on the chain, more and more TRX staked have switched from Stake 1.0 to Stake 2.0. The flexibility of Stake 2.0 in terms of resource delegation makes the chain resource delegation increasingly active.

sniperfilter commented 1 year ago

as if it wasn't bad enough with a 3 day hold now there is even longer hold and no pay for the 16 days come on people wake up holds that you don't get paid for is just plain stupid .

okwapa210 commented 1 year ago

No reward during the unstaking waiting period, this is understandable, almost all DPOS mechanisms work like this.

CooperDepp commented 1 year ago

as if it wasn't bad enough with a 3 day hold now there is even longer hold and no pay for the 16 days come on people wake up holds that you don't get paid for is just plain stupid .

it is a waiting time of 14 days rather than 16 days after unstaking, every public chain has a lock-up period mechanism, and answer to the similar question by @okwapa210, if you do not like to wait for 14 days with no rewards, you can use justlend to stake TRX and get sTRX, and you can swap the sTRX to TRX on sunswap at anytime

ethan1844 commented 1 year ago

Thanks to everyone's contribution to this proposal.

This issue will be closed as it is already going to effect, check detail at: https://tronscan.org/#/proposal/84