Why should people come?

[neilmanuell]

A discussion about what is relevant in our industry NOW.

For me I am finding that there is simply too much out there to have a deep knowledge of any tech. So its important to focus on all those skills that unite them all.

[mnem]

This is probably the hardest thing to decide. It's hard to sell "interesting things talked about by interesting people" (at least to budget deciding departments). Is it still focused on TDD with bonus extras?

[tschneidereit]

The thing that started try{harder} in the first place was that we were all fed up with people just showing off their latest creative coding/fancy visuals stuff instead of actually talking about technically interesting things.

I think we could extend the basic theme of "let's talk about things that are relevant to us" towards "let's talk about things that are relevant in the bigger picture"?

Without try{harder}, I most likely wouldn't be at Mozilla: I'd still try to keep myself challenged on a technical level instead of working on something that I love and believe in in more important ways. (Don't get me wrong - I also haven't ever been as challenged on that level before.)

I can't really put my finger on what it was that triggered a decision to change course, and more importantly, I'm not talking about trying to get everyone to do the same. Least of all I mean something along the lines of "you should all work where I work".

In short, I don't really know what I mean, exactly, but it does seem like it might be interesting to extend the "try harder" meme beyond technical stuff.

[Stray]

nods

Aye. That's exactly it. There were two reasons I wanted to start try{harder} - one was about being fed up with people just showing off pretty/impressive things that had no impact on the way 99% of us work.

The other was about hating the feeling of being the person showing off - not liking the asymmetry. So - as Till put it at the time - we created the symmetry of the asymmetry.

TDD was a useful filter in more ways that I initially intended. I knew it would generate a self-selecting group of people who had respect for their collaborators - tests are crucial in creating code that is decoupled from the author.

I hadn't realised at the time that the TDD process is one that creates a conversation between parts of yourself which then hones your ability to talk with others about your intentions for code. Talking about intentions keeps the implementation details fluid for longer, which makes for a better conversation. At least I think it does. So - we effectively selected people who had already developed that skill a little and honed it among ourselves as we practiced.

TDD is also a practice which, I think, casts the coder as stumbling, half-blind idiot with good intentions and a work ethic, rather than heroic ninja genius. Personally I find that engaging conscious-incompetence mode is good for me. TDD does that at a micro level, and try{harder} - in putting each of us into student mode for most of the sessions - does that at a macro level. (Feel free to reject the "stumbling, half-blind idiot" identity if it doesn't fit for you. Obviously I also know that I am extremely smart, as are all of you).

I think most of the content of the last few try{harder}s has been platform agnostic - though with a good proportion still quite focussed on things you can actually execute the next time you sit down to work.

Were you thinking even bigger than that, Till? Personally I think being anchored in technical execution helps us all with our individual anxieties, but I have taken huge amounts from the meta stuff as well. For example Richard's amazingly comprehensive session on entity systems - I didn't just come away understanding how and why they are used, I also benefitted from the bigger idea of saying 'how would this thing work if we approached it from a totally different architecture?', and what that can teach you about a problem.

Sx

On 19 May 2014, at 10:42, Till Schneidereit notifications@github.com wrote:

The thing that started try{harder} in the first place was that we were all fed up with people just showing off their latest creative coding/fancy visuals stuff instead of actually talking about technically interesting things.

I think we could extend the basic theme of "let's talk about things that are relevant to us" towards "let's talk about things that are relevant in the bigger picture"?

Without try{harder}, I most likely wouldn't be at Mozilla: I'd still try to keep myself challenged on a technical level instead of working on something that I love and believe in in more important ways. (Don't get me wrong - I also haven't ever been as challenged on that level before.)

I can't really put my finger on what it was that triggered a decision to change course, and more importantly, I'm not talking about trying to get everyone to do the same. Least of all I mean something along the lines of "you should all work where I work".

In short, I don't really know what I mean, exactly, but it does seem like it might be interesting to extend the "try harder" meme beyond technical stuff. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[neilmanuell]

I have never got any thing technical from tryharder (this is not true, of course, but I'm saying it for effect. But Its not what I came out thinking about.). What I got is the validation that my technical skills are not the only weapon in my arsenal. I got a metre stick by which I could measure myself by way of people whom I respect and admire.

I think I understand what you are saying Til, or at least I also can't really find the words to express what I mean either.

From talking to some other people in the business I am hearing how every-one is being overwhelmed by the sheer vastness of the tech out their. It is difficult to know anything deeply without stagnating, so the only way is to broaden scope and work on transferable skills.

I think maybe There is confusion (maybe just by me) between technology and technique.

I think that TTD is a great exercise in both the technique of writing code and the technique of creating collaboratively. One involves technology, but the other does not. I mean that it could just as well be a collaboration in the cooking competition that @mnem suggested.

Is this making sense?

[tam203]

The best advertisement for try{harder} is the stories of the people who have been on it. I agree with everything on this page and more. Rather than (or as well as) bio's on the site we could have peoples stories and what try{harder} means to them.