Best Micrcontroller to use

[bigalnz]

The little documentation I can find seems to be several years old.

In the absence of a detailed guide is the best supported hardware to buy the Arduino Uno R3 or?

Combined with one of these : https://www.ebay.com/itm/263690841938?hash=item3d6532ef52:g:2R8AAOSw94Ba-6me

Will this setup with appropriate cable let me do everything a Actisense NGT-1 would do? (N2k reader/writer)

Thanks

[ttlappalainen]

I prefer Teensy 3.2 ... 4.1 or ESP32, if you need WiFi. I have not used much Arduinos for long time and do not know does they have any good boards for NMEA 2000.

Forget everything smaller than Arduino DUE. Mega is just on the limit, but both are physically big and eats lot power compared to above.

[bigalnz]

Hi TImo,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Maybe something like this : https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html

Your code will run on the above board too?

Thanks

Al

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 7:29 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

I prefer Teensy 3.2 ... 4.1 or ESP32, if you need WiFi. I have not used much Arduinos for long time and do not know does they have any good boards for NMEA 2000.

Forget everything smaller than Arduino DUE. Mega is just on the limit, but both are physically big and eats lot power compared to above.

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• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

I have tested on on Teensy 4.0, but it has same CAN controllor, so should not be any problem. You need then NMEA2000 and NMEA2000_TeensyX libraries

[bigalnz]

Do you think it will do the same as : https://actisense.com/products/ngt-1-nmea-2000-to-pc-interface/

[ttlappalainen]

Hw is better. Depends of sw. There is example ActisenseListenerSender, which sends and receive data. Then you can use NMEA Simulator http://www.kave.fi/Apps/ with it.

[bigalnz]

You mean NGT-1 hardware is better than Teensy4.1?

[ttlappalainen]

Teensy has better hw

[bigalnz]

Would teensy4 do? 4.1 is sold out everywhere.

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 9:28 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

Teensy has better hw

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• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

Yes. It just does not have flash card. All Teensy 3.2 and up will run ActisenseListenerSender and much more.

[bigalnz]

Hi Timo,

My board (Teensy 4.1) arrived today.

I downloaded NMEA2000-master and NMEA2000_Teensy added libs to Arduino IDE, but then what do I do :-0

Cheers

Al

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 3:28 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

Yes. It just does not have flash card. All Teensy 3.2 and up will run ActisenseListenerSender and much more.

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• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

You need NMEA2000 and NMEA2000_TeensyX for Teensy 4.0 and 4.1. You can test it with example ActisenseListenerSender and NMEA Simulator (www.kave.fi/Apps), if you have parts to connect your Teensy to the NMEA2000 bus.

Your question is bit funny "but then what do I do". How I would know that? I have no idea of what you have and what you can do and what is your goal, but definetely I'll not guid you how to start from scratch. In the library document there are some very basic samples to start with library and Arduino environment. Please read those. Either I do not know do yo even have any basic knowledge of electronics or how to connect to NMEA2000 bus.

[bigalnz]

Hi TImo,

Duh - sorry about that. I have some programming experience in Java. I have uploaded the blinking light examples as a test.

My aim is to create a programmer for my Actisense EMU-1 (in other words create a poor mans NGT-1).

So I presume:

1. Load the libs that you detailed above
2. Open the ActisenseReaderSender code. Compile and upload.
3. Wire it all up?

I have not got far enough yet to work out how to connect these two together:

[image: image.png]

Then the pins to connect the NMEA 2000 cable to.

Might make a video about it when I am all done :-)

Cheers

Al SV Sunrise [NZ]

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 9:32 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

You need NMEA2000 and NMEA2000_TeensyX for Teensy 4.0 and 4.1. You can test it with example ActisenseListenerSender and NMEA Simulator ( www.kave.fi/Apps), if you have parts to connect your Teensy to the NMEA2000 bus.

Your question is bit funny "but then what do I do". How I would know that? I have no idea of what you have and what you can do and what is your goal, but definetely I'll not guid you how to start from scratch. In the library document there are some very basic samples to start with library and Arduino environment. Please read those. Either I do not know do yo even have any basic knowledge of electronics or how to connect to NMEA2000 bus.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-911453395, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKRHLNZFZGPTQQQ4XHGTT75ACNANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

I do not see the picture, but I hope you have tranceiver chip like MCP2562 between Teensy Rx/Tx and CAN-H/CAN-L.

[bigalnz]

This link?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WpyZW14dTzCuF96Z9

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021, 08:17 Timo Lappalainen, @.***> wrote:

I do not see the picture, but I hope you have tranceiver chip like MCP2562 between Teensy Rx/Tx and CAN-H/CAN-L.

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[bigalnz]

The board that I got by the way uses Texas Instruments SN65HVD230.

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021, 08:17 Timo Lappalainen, @.***> wrote:

I do not see the picture, but I hope you have tranceiver chip like MCP2562 between Teensy Rx/Tx and CAN-H/CAN-L.

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[ttlappalainen]

OK. Good luck! If you read through other issues and forum https://forum.arduino.cc/t/nmea-2000-shield/51012/1102 you will find that you are not first one having problems with that chip. At least yo hould find out the meaning of R1 and R2. Note that in CAN BUS there should be exactly 2 120 ohm termination resistors.

[bigalnz]

Ok I buy another one then. They are cheap.

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021, 09:13 Timo Lappalainen, @.***> wrote:

OK. Good luck! If you read through other issues and forum https://forum.arduino.cc/t/nmea-2000-shield/51012/1102 you will find that you are not first one having problems with that chip. At least yo hould find out the meaning of R1 and R2. Note that in CAN BUS there should be exactly 2 120 ohm termination resistors.

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[bigalnz]

Ok I ordered one with MCP2515 like this : https://www.ebay.com/itm/324720229995?hash=item4b9ad57e6b:g:m4IAAOSwngpg9QD3

Probably cant do much till it arrives.

What are the screw terminals on it for?

Thanks again

Al

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 9:13 AM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

OK. Good luck! If you read through other issues and forum https://forum.arduino.cc/t/nmea-2000-shield/51012/1102 you will find that you are not first one having problems with that chip. At least yo hould find out the meaning of R1 and R2. Note that in CAN BUS there should be exactly 2 120 ohm termination resistors.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-912061453, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKRDWL2OKPBF7AFHS3MLT77SGLANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

Missed again. I have to write some hw instructions to library documents...

That board has CAN tranceiver, but Teensies already have better one. You need simple MCP2562 do inisolated or ISO1050 for isolated connection. For MCP2562 there is document https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/blob/master/Documents/ArduinoDUE_CAN_with_MCP2562.pdf for DUE connection. MCP2562 connection to Teensies or ESP32 is similar.

[bigalnz]

Ok, now I am even more confused.

I need a MCP2512 controller not transceiver - is that what you mean?

Is a transceiver different to a controller?

Sigh!

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 2:56 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

Missed again. I have to write some hw instructions to library documents...

That board has CAN tranceiver, but Teensies already have better one. You need simple MCP2562 do inisolated or ISO1050 for isolated connection. For MCP2562 there is document https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/blob/master/Documents/ArduinoDUE_CAN_with_MCP2562.pdf for DUE connection. MCP2562 connection to Teensies or ESP32 is similar.

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-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

No. With Teensies or ESP32 you need unisolated MCP2562 or isolated ISO1050 tranceiver. Those boards has build in CAN controller.

Controller means that it takes care of bus arbitration. Tranceiver is just "level shifter" and converts 3.3 V Tx/Rx to CAN bus differential levels.

[ttlappalainen]

Hi all,

Could you make me favour and read and comment document https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/blob/master/Documents/Connecting_hardware_to_NMEA2000.pdf

[bigalnz]

Happy to help. Do you have it in a format I can edit or markup?

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 7:48 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

Hi all,

Could you make me favour and read and comment document https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/blob/master/Documents/Connecting_hardware_to_NMEA2000.pdf

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-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

You can add notes to .pdf.

[bigalnz]

Hi Timo,

What would you like to know?

From the perspective of a lay person who is new to this, I think this document would help, but would not have taken me all the way.

What did you find confusing I hear you ask?

Canbus Controller/Transceiver I did not realise that the controller and transceiver are two different functions, and that the Teensy has a controller built in, but not a transceiver. One must be careful of buying boards on eBay as is you search MCP2515 you get boards that do both - for Duo and Teensy 4.1 - this is NOT what you want. Insert link to boards

Buying Canbus Transceiver I have still not found a MCP2515 transceiver - only boards that do both the transceiver and controller. Can you include link and or picture to examples?

Pictures I would be inclined to include some pictures of a wired up teensy to transceiver.

I would also think about maybe a getting start quick guide - there is a lot of background in the document you have done.

I plan to make a tutorial once I get mine going, but it is a project to acheive a specific purpose (create a NGT1 to program my EMU1)

Does this make sense?

Al

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 8:37 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

You can add notes to .pdf.

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-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

I would like to know does document help beginner as you are:)

Canbus Controller/Transceiver Document should explain what you need. It is problematic to put any links to eBay or any shop, since they arechanging all the time. Point is that I give information what you need and then you find it.

Buying Canbus Transceiver There is no MCP2515 tranceiver. MCP2515 is CAN controller. MCP2551 is tranceiver, but it is only 5V. Thats why I'll prefer MCP2562, since that works with any IO level.

Pictures I expect people should be able to read schematics. Have to think about that.

Also I see that written background is important to understand. With quick start guide I should go directly to the isolated solution to be safe. I tried to keep background as short as possible. This is a bit different than just making solution to blink led.

If there would be enough market, I would make some own shield.

[bigalnz]

Right - so even in your email I have learnt a lot more

MCP2515 = CAN Controller MCP2551 = CAN Transceiver (5v only) MCP2562 = CAN Transceiver (3.3v - preferred)

I understand what you are saying about links. Pictures would do it.

It feels a bit like you are saying to people "here is how it all works and what you need to consider, which parts you get are up to you". I am just thinking some people may prefer a precise list of known compatible parts?

I still cant find a MCP2562 board??? Got any links? I will have another look at the manual tomorrow, but it may make more sense, once I have got mine going, then I can document it.

I plan on a youtube style tutorial.

AG

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 10:32 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

I would like to know does document help beginner as you are:)

Canbus Controller/Transceiver Document should explain what you need. It is problematic to put any links to eBay or any shop, since they arechanging all the time. Point is that I give information what you need and then you find it.

Buying Canbus Transceiver There is no MCP2515 tranceiver. MCP2515 is CAN controller. MCP2551 is tranceiver, but it is only 5V. Thats why I'll prefer MCP2562, since that works with any IO level.

Pictures I expect people should be able to read schematics. Have to think about that.

Also I see that written background is important to understand. With quick start guide I should go directly to the isolated solution to be safe. I tried to keep background as short as possible. This is a bit different than just making solution to blink led.

If there would be enough market, I would make some own shield.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-913126595, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKREET7U7WTWK7XQYXUDUANBMZANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

I did not either found "board" with MCP2562. When I started, I did not search board for MCP2515 with MCP2551. I ordered parts and soldered my own and did not had any problems. Thats also why I had no problems with MCP2562 - just ordered chip and soldered own board for it.

Problem is that all those CAN shields are really CAN shields and not for NMEA2000. Your SN65HVD230 may work, if you remove those resistors on it.

[ttlappalainen]

Now I found one: https://copperhilltech.com/isolated-can-bus-breakout-board-5-vdc/

[ttlappalainen]

One can get ISO1050 chip in DIP as low as 3.60 $. Would save Teensy board, by learning soldering. Or actually you can wire DIP package to test board.

[bigalnz]

Yes - original here :

https://www.skpang.co.uk/collections/can-bus-boards/products/can-bus-can-fd-breakout-board-5v-supply-and-3-3v-logic

The have designed some basic boards on EasyEDA and had them printed....soooo cheap.

Something I might do in future for MCP2562.

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 11:15 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

Now I found one: https://copperhilltech.com/isolated-can-bus-breakout-board-5-vdc/

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-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[bigalnz]

I might need to remove resistors, or definitely will?

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 11:09 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

I did not either found "board" with MCP2562. When I started, I did not search board for MCP2515 with MCP2551. I ordered parts and soldered my own and did not had any problems. Thats also why I had no problems with MCP2562

• just ordered chip and soldered own board for it.

Problem is that all those CAN shields are really CAN shields and not for NMEA2000. Your SN65HVD230 may work, if you remove those resistors on it.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-913132702, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKRBAOFUQARZTT5KK753UANFXLANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

You will need. As in document, bus must have exactly 2 termination, which I expect you already have on your boat. If you connect this, you will have three. Also that has been centers to gnd with two 60 ohm. This is not used on NMEA2000.

So just remove both and if you make test bench do it as in my document.

[ttlappalainen]

My first Teensy 3.2 + MCP2562 + PSU + fuse + 1-wire took less space than that CAN-Bus CAN FD Breakout Board.

[ttlappalainen]

One more hint: You do not need to quote my previous answer.

[bigalnz]

Hi Tmio

I was checking if it was a must or a maybe. Nothing else I have read take about removing them.

It sounds like a must.

Thanks

Al

On Mon, 6 Sep 2021, 02:39 Timo Lappalainen, @.***> wrote:

One more hint: You do not need to quote my previous answer.

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[bigalnz]

Do I need to bridge the pads once the resistors are removed?

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 2:39 AM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

One more hint: You do not need to quote my previous answer.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-913166782, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKRE2FGDTYF2KPRJGWH3UAN6K5ANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

-- "Beat it punk!"

• Clint Eastwood

[ttlappalainen]

No. But as I said you need termination resistors in both end of backbone as in my document chapter 6.

[bigalnz]

The network on the boat has those blue raymarine terminators on the end of the backbone. This is the same thing right?

So I remove the resistors but don't close the circuit with a piece of wire?

Cheers

Al

On Mon, 6 Sep 2021, 18:26 Timo Lappalainen, @.***> wrote:

No. But as I said you need termination resistors in both end of backbone as in my document chapter 6.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-913378301, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKRFRLQJWYWVC7VDXOO3UARNJFANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

[ttlappalainen]

No. That would shortcut CAN-L and CAN-H

[bigalnz]

So I got the cable. It has CAN-H CAN-L and Red and Black wires which appear to be

Can the Black go to ground on the Teensy? Where should the Red go?

Thanks

Al

[ttlappalainen]

Read my document https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/blob/master/Documents/Connecting_hardware_to_NMEA2000.pdf On chapter 5 there is connection examples. If you feed your device with USB, you leave red 12 V unconnected, but you have risk on groundloop.

[bigalnz]

The issue with the docs is it relates only to the MCP2562 - which cant be brought as just a transceiver - well I think there was one place in the UK - but by and large SN65HVD230 is most common.

When you say you can power your "device" from NMEA2000 bus - do you mean connecting the Red and Black wires to the Teensy4.1? (If so which pins?)

I also have no idea if the SN65HVD230 is isolated or un-isolated transceiver. How would I know.

[ttlappalainen]

I do not want to advertise SN65HVD230, since there has been so much problems with that. It is unisolated. In document there is clear schema that if you want to power device from bus, you need DC-DC converter. Teensy boards can be powered with 5V only by cutting USP power pad as shown in schema. 4.1 has similar pad.

[bigalnz]

Hi Timo, I see. But if I type in MCP2562 into ebay or google only the chips themselves come up not a board. I would intend to power my board with power from the USB bus if this is possible? And if that is possible should the ground wire be connected to the Teensy?

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 5:15 PM Timo Lappalainen @.***> wrote:

I do not want to advertise SN65HVD230, since there has been so much problems with that. It is unisolated. In document there is clear schema that if you want to power device from bus, you need DC-DC converter. Teensy boards can be powered with 5V only by cutting USP power pad as shown in schema. 4.1 has similar pad.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-922416882, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKRHLK24U3WMUKDATXVTUCVWYRANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

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[ttlappalainen]

Then you connect ground to Teensy, but this is risky to create ground loop as I have explained in document. If you are just testing on table with few devices, it does not matter, but in boat it may cause problems.

[bigalnz]

I will run laptop off it's internal battery so no other path to boat ground. Does that mitigate the loop risk?

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021, 18:25 Timo Lappalainen, @.***> wrote:

Then you connect ground to Teensy, but this is risky to create ground loop as I have explained in document. If you are just testing on table with few devices, it does not matter, but in boat it may cause problems.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000/issues/228#issuecomment-922422507, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACSLKRG2T56UKVRKG6SNBS3UCV66DANCNFSM5BMC5B2A . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

[mrbubble62]

I will run laptop off it's internal battery so no other path to boat ground. Does that mitigate the loop risk? … That will work, just don't try charging the laptop.

[ttlappalainen]

Actually laptop powersupplies are isolated. But if you connect some unisolated sensors to board,...

[bigalnz]

In the meantime (until I get to test this on boat) I am looking at ordering MCP2562 and designing a board to mount it. Does this look right? (I am assuming I don't need resistors on the board since on both ends of my network on boat have terminators)