Empty Entry and Accent Marks on Vowels

[LinguList]

WARNING Entry ID=26033, concept=OLDER SISTER (OF WOMAN), language=Guajajara is empty

This is the only error I received now. But it seems that the tone marks are inconsistent: you have many cases with "á", etc., which is not our preferred way to mark tone, as it is merging tone and vowel and it is often also confused with stress and accent. Also, dipthong segmentations are not clear to me: "ua" is in my opinion in most situations rather a "w a", same as "ia". So I suggest to look into vowels in tuled more systematically, as these are important for alignments.

[LanguageStructure]

I'm checking this concept oin Guajajara. Guajajara has no tones, so this is just an indicator of which syllable is accented. Perhaps we could start using the ipa stress marker.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 9:36 PM Johann-Mattis List @.***> wrote:

WARNING Entry ID=26033, concept=OLDER SISTER (OF WOMAN), language=Guajajara is empty

This is the only error I received now. But it seems that the tone marks are inconsistent: you have many cases with "á", etc., which is not our preferred way to mark tone, as it is merging tone and vowel and it is often also confused with stress and accent. Also, dipthong segmentations are not clear to me: "ua" is in my opinion in most situations rather a "w a", same as "ia". So I suggest to look into vowels in tuled more systematically, as these are important for alignments.

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[LanguageStructure]

the concept

Entry ID=26033, concept=OLDER SISTER (OF WOMAN) in Guajajara

is fine. Length and etc. all fine!

regarding the vowels, I will talk to Carolina about this. I also do not like it the way it is

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 9:38 PM Fabrício @.***> wrote:

I'm checking this concept oin Guajajara. Guajajara has no tones, so this is just an indicator of which syllable is accented. Perhaps we could start using the ipa stress marker.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 9:36 PM Johann-Mattis List < @.***> wrote:

WARNING Entry ID=26033, concept=OLDER SISTER (OF WOMAN), language=Guajajara is empty

This is the only error I received now. But it seems that the tone marks are inconsistent: you have many cases with "á", etc., which is not our preferred way to mark tone, as it is merging tone and vowel and it is often also confused with stress and accent. Also, dipthong segmentations are not clear to me: "ua" is in my opinion in most situations rather a "w a", same as "ia". So I suggest to look into vowels in tuled more systematically, as these are important for alignments.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/tupian-language-resources/tuled/issues/48, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ALNZPK5EXZFPOJVMSTLETJTUXMIK7ANCNFSM5MSM67XA . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

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[LinguList]

If you have stress, and want to annotated it, if you can only annotate it for one language, it is not consistent. So I'd say it should be placed into a separate column, where you indicate stress for each sound:

t o x t e r 1 1 1 0 0 0

You see?

Mixing stress in IPA is never really useful, as machines do not know the syllable boundaries, etc.

[LanguageStructure]

then I will delete the accents and keep only tones. You can let me know how to annotate the tones

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 9:48 PM Johann-Mattis List @.***> wrote:

If you have stress, and want to annotated it, if you can only annotate it for one language, it is not consistent. So I'd say it should be placed into a separate column, where you indicate stress for each sound:

t o x t e r 1 1 1 0 0 0

You see?

Mixing stress in IPA is never really useful, as machines do not know the syllable boundaries, etc.

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[LanguageStructure]

for Munduruku I have started to annotate glottalized vowels. Apparently they did not cause a problem

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 9:49 PM Fabrício @.***> wrote:

then I will delete the accents and keep only tones. You can let me know how to annotate the tones

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 9:48 PM Johann-Mattis List < @.***> wrote:

If you have stress, and want to annotated it, if you can only annotate it for one language, it is not consistent. So I'd say it should be placed into a separate column, where you indicate stress for each sound:

t o x t e r 1 1 1 0 0 0

You see?

Mixing stress in IPA is never really useful, as machines do not know the syllable boundaries, etc.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/tupian-language-resources/tuled/issues/48#issuecomment-1019355421, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ALNZPK3IUVRTPIHGFSIGYHDUXMJYHANCNFSM5MSM67XA . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

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[LinguList]

I recommend to use the slash-construction if you do not want to loose information: instead of t á k a n, you write t á/a k a n. This means: lingpy interprets only a, but knows that á is what is intended for the reader. Edictor renders this in superscript. I recommend to use this also for your tone marks. For accents, you could write 'a/a, so it is distinguished from vowels with tones.

[LanguageStructure]

can you change that automatically or should we do it manually?

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 10:42 AM Johann-Mattis List < @.***> wrote:

I recommend to use the slash-construction if you do not want to loose information: instead of t á k a n, you write t á/a k a n. This means: lingpy interprets only a, but knows that á is what is intended for the reader. Edictor renders this in superscript. I recommend to use this also for your tone marks. For accents, you could write 'a/a, so it is distinguished from vowels with tones.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/tupian-language-resources/tuled/issues/48#issuecomment-1019447888, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ALNZPKZN2IZVBUJMHF3VPSLUXPEOTANCNFSM5MSM67XA . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

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[LinguList]

I prefer you doing it manually, also to learn the slash construction for future uses (we use it for other things as well that may come in handy when I make the partial cross-semantic cognate check).

[LanguageStructure]

Ok, I'll do that.

Johann-Mattis List @.***> schrieb am So. 23. Jan. 2022 um 10:47:

I prefer you doing it manually, also to learn the slash construction for future uses (we use it for other things as well that may come in handy when I make the partial cross-semantic cognate check).

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-- Fabrício Gerardi

[LanguageStructure]

How about the annotation of tones?

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 10:48 AM Fabrício @.***> wrote:

Ok, I'll do that.

Johann-Mattis List @.***> schrieb am So. 23. Jan. 2022 um 10:47:

I prefer you doing it manually, also to learn the slash construction for future uses (we use it for other things as well that may come in handy when I make the partial cross-semantic cognate check).

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/tupian-language-resources/tuled/issues/48#issuecomment-1019448857, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ALNZPKYUD7AVHFA7TKXUWFLUXPFEZANCNFSM5MSM67XA . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

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-- Fabrício Gerardi

[LinguList]

Depending on your tones. If you have high, mid, and low, you could write: a³/a a²/a etc.