Submit applications for virtual card providers

[rndquu]

Stripe has rejected our application for enabling a live mode for card issuing so we need to find a new virtual cards API provider.

There are the following virtual card providers:

• https://wallester.com/api/card-issuing
• https://karta.io/cards
• https://www.airwallex.com/core-api/issuing
• https://ufitpay.com/virtual-card
• https://www.korahq.com/
• https://union54.com/
• https://flutterwave.com/us/card-issuing
• https://www.galileo-ft.com/products/card-issuing/
• https://checkbook.io/product/payments/virtual-cards/
• https://www.modulrfinance.com/product/cards?hs_preview=vPYdytqs-105603312401
• https://www.rapyd.net/products/issuing/
• https://developer.sprint.paymentology.com/
• https://www.weavr.io/
• https://www.sagacorp.fr/en/virtual-cards-api
• https://www.berkeleypayment.com/features/virtual-cards
• https://www.adyen.com/issuing
• https://www.marqeta.com/platform/virtual-cards

I've checked those APIs and all of them support our case of issuing virtual cards for business needs.

It makes sense to reach to all of them and ask if ubiquity org is eligible to use their services.

We should make sure that (on initial contact):

1. Virtual card service provider would enable live mode for us (i.e. we're compliant with the provider's policy)
2. Virtual cards can be added to digital wallets (like Apple Wallet or Google Wallet)
3. Virtual cards can be used for payments in South Korea (or via digital wallet)

Simply put we should start applying for live mode until we get accepted somewhere.

@sergfeldman Perhaps you could run the applications?

[rndquu]

It will take a little while to pass compliance probably (they have bank account requirements etc)

@rndquu here is a sandbox only key they offered because I started the onboarding process: 05252f24-7b22-4930-920d-538bbcbe6f41

Looks like I can enable production but with the following spend limits:

$250.00 Per Week $500.00 Per Month

I've checked lithic's docs at https://docs.lithic.com/reference/, their API looks way too similar to the stripe's API, they either use stripe API under the hood either the whole backend is designed by the team who worked at stripe some time ago

Anyway the API allows issuing virtual cards, we need to enable the live mode first and check that the cards work in South Korea and then proceed with updating of https://pay.ubq.fi/ to use virtual cards

[0x4007]

I have a production key but it's directly linked to my bank account so I think it's better for the team to use development key and I'll test the last mile.

Lithic pushed back when I asked for clarifications on the requirements for setting up an account so I just told them we are going for millions in revenue within a few months, no crypto etc etc

That conversation initiated on Thursday and they didn't reply on Friday so I'll need to follow up.

But according to the dashboard we should be able to test in production with the low limits?

need to enable live mode

Okay so I'll need to start that test. I'll look into it on Monday. Although I would be really surprised if it didn't work for some reason here.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[rndquu]

But according to the dashboard we should be able to test in production with the low limits?

Yes

Okay so I'll need to start that test. I'll look into it on Monday.

ok

[0x4007]

Okay so I'll need to start that test. I'll look into it on Monday.

I didn't get a chance because I was not feeling well today. I have it on my calendar for tomorrow.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[0x4007]

Bad news: I tried creating a card and it says "account under review." Given my discourse with their representative, this means that they will not let us make test cards until we secure a banking relationship. Basically they said they will let us use their technology but we still need to get a bank partnership. Technically this opens us up to being able to pick sort of any bank, but this is still quite close to square one.

I think we're going to need to launch with gift cards after all.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[rndquu]

I think we're going to need to launch with gift cards after all.

We haven't yet found a gift card provider with working cards in South Korea

I'm ok with whatever comes first approach, either virtual cards either gift cards

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[0x4007]

It's unclear if we should axe this project for 2024 because getting a banking partner seems like a real uphill battle. We could try a mass email outreach campaign with the lead gen guy I'm bringing on board but aside from that I would say its not worth spinning our wheels on.

[sergfeldman]

@pavlovcik Can we ask @diamondnegroni to test payment with gift cards in South Korea? If such testing is possible, I can send him 1 MasterCard and 1 Visa card.

[sergfeldman]

I was able to pay my OpenAI bill of $10 successfully. There's another $10 on there for testing if anybody wants to try.

@pavlovcik @rndquu Please clarify what are the problems with universal (non-advertising) cards created in https://epn.net/, except for the commission for replenishment.

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[0x4007]

@pavlovcik Can we ask @diamondnegroni to test payment with gift cards in South Korea? If such testing is possible, I can send him 1 MasterCard and 1 Visa card.

Yes either of us can.

@pavlovcik @rndquu Please clarify what are the problems with universal (non-advertising) cards created in https://epn.net/, except for the commission for replenishment.

epn doesn't support virtual wallets (Apple Pay) as I recall.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[0x4007]

Stripe has rejected our application for enabling a live mode for card issuing so we need to find a new virtual cards API provider.

There are the following virtual card providers:

• https://wallester.com/api/card-issuing

• https://karta.io/cards

• https://www.airwallex.com/core-api/issuing

• https://ufitpay.com/virtual-card

• https://www.korahq.com/

• https://union54.com/

• https://flutterwave.com/us/card-issuing

• https://www.galileo-ft.com/products/card-issuing/

• https://checkbook.io/product/payments/virtual-cards/

• https://www.modulrfinance.com/product/cards?hs_preview=vPYdytqs-105603312401

• https://www.rapyd.net/products/issuing/

• https://developer.sprint.paymentology.com/

• https://www.weavr.io/

• https://www.sagacorp.fr/en/virtual-cards-api

• https://www.berkeleypayment.com/features/virtual-cards

• https://www.adyen.com/issuing

• https://www.marqeta.com/platform/virtual-cards

I've checked those APIs and all of them support our case of issuing virtual cards for business needs.

It makes sense to reach to all of them and ask if ubiquity org is eligible to use their services.

We should make sure that (on initial contact):

1. Virtual card service provider would enable live mode for us (i.e. we're compliant with the provider's policy)

2. Virtual cards can be added to digital wallets (like Apple Wallet or Google Wallet)

3. Virtual cards can be used for payments in South Korea (or via digital wallet)

Simply put we should start applying for live mode until we get accepted somewhere.

@sergfeldman Perhaps you could run the applications?

@sergfeldman two questions:

1. Is reloadly the only viable option right now? What about the rest from this list?

2. Assuming reloadly works, from what I understand we can not top up an existing card balance?

@rndquu we will need to carefully think through the UI/UX for this as I imagine that it might get kind of annoying/frustrating to 1. Have to see a full list of every card issued in the archive 2. See that there is a remaining balance that can’t be used (for example like $3) across several cards.

Perhaps this is a silly idea, but we could charge (using stripe) and consolidate across several cards. It would cost the processing fee of ~3% but that would be convenient if a contributor has like 10 cards with $3 balances!

After hitting the "consolidate balances" button, it can hide the cards from the users view so they never have to think about the old cards again.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[rndquu]

Is reloadly the only viable option right now?

As far as I understand a real payment via reloadly didn't work

[sergfeldman]

We managed to issue a card to a non-existent person and pay for a purchase in South Korea using Apple Pay. The Reloadly Mastercard Prepaid Card USD US was used for testing https://dashboard.reloadly.com/giftcards/16923

Expenses

• There is a commission for replenishing the Reloadly balance. In the future, we need to check the commission for topping up in crypto.
• Issue of a MasterCard card cost 1 USD, Visa is supposedly more expensive.
• When purchasing from this card, an additional commission of 0.37 USD was charged, probably for currency exchange.

Inconveniences

• First card activation on the vendor’s website takes up to 5 minutes, the next cards faster https://myprepaidcenter.com/
• When making a purchase with Apple Pay, the card balance was not shown. This balance can be viewed on the vendor’s website.
• The cards are non-reloadable.

As the next steps, we can

• Whitelist IPs for the API to remove the 100 USD limit per card. After whitelisting the IP it should be 1,000 USD, and more for some cards.

• We also need to check that the API key that I took from the Reloadly website is still active (links in the task https://github.com/ubiquity/card-issuance/issues/34)

If these points do not cause problems, then we can integrate the Reloadly API for testing the flows and collecting feedback. After analyzing feedback, we can determine the next steps on Ubiquity cards.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[0x4007]

@rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Dollar protocol by 1 April. Assuming your bandwidth is limited, perhaps we can tag in gitcoindev?

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[rndquu]

@sergfeldman

We managed to issue a card to a non-existent person and pay for a purchase in South Korea using Apple Pay.

What county of residence did you set for the test user? US?

This balance can be viewed on the vendor’s website.

Where exactly? Could you provide the URL?

The cards are non-reloadable

By "non-reloadable" you mean that cards can not be replenished again, right?

[rndquu]

@rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Dollar protocol by 1 April. Assuming your bandwidth is limited, perhaps we can tag in gitcoindev?

Yes, I'm busy with the Dollar project right now, so it makes sense to ask gitcoindev or someone else who's available to proceed with https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/issues/174

Overall https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/issues/174 should be totally revamped for usage of gift cards since I initially thought that we'd finally find some virtual cards provider, I will update wireframes today for usage of gift cards

The main issue right now, as far as I understand, is that https://github.com/ubiquibot/comment-incentives doesn't tally up rewards but just prints permits on issue close. We need to add some new param like "permit-mode" which could be set to "print-immediately" or "tally-up" so that when https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/issues/174 is ready we could simply switch from "print-immediately" to the "tally-up" mode.

[sergfeldman]

@rndquu

What county of residence did you set for the test user? US?

I put the South Korean residence for the test card.

Where exactly? Could you provide the URL?

The balance of the MasterCard gift cards that we create on Reloadly can be checked on the same website where a user activates the MasterCard gift cards https://myprepaidcenter.com/ Also, there are third-party mobile apps for checking the balance of gift cards, but I did not test them.

By "non-reloadable" you mean that cards can not be replenished again, right?

Yes. This is one of the main problems of gift prepaid cards - it is impossible to replenish them after creation.

[sergfeldman]

@rndquu

Overall https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/issues/174 should be totally revamped for usage of gift cards since I initially thought that we'd finally find some virtual cards provider

It's cool that you design user flows. We need to test our flows and collect feedback from contributors who will receive rewards with cards.

From my point of view, the simpler and more automated the process, the better. The "Claim" step is common in Web3, but not common for cards.

A simple flow for receiving rewards with cards could be like this:

• When a contributor starts a task and wants to receive a reward with a gift card, he indicates his email once.
• When the task is successfully completed, the gift card activation code is automatically sent to his email. And no more steps.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[0x4007]

@rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Dollar protocol by 1 April. Assuming your bandwidth is limited, perhaps we can tag in gitcoindev?

Yes, I'm busy with the Dollar project right now, so it makes sense to ask gitcoindev or someone else who's available to proceed with https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/issues/174

Overall https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/issues/174 should be totally revamped for usage of gift cards since I initially thought that we'd finally find some virtual cards provider, I will update wireframes today for usage of gift cards

The main issue right now, as far as I understand, is that https://github.com/ubiquibot/comment-incentives doesn't tally up rewards but just prints permits on issue close. We need to add some new param like "permit-mode" which could be set to "print-immediately" or "tally-up" so that when https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/issues/174 is ready we could simply switch from "print-immediately" to the "tally-up" mode.

Another approach that mate be less burdensome for our accounting/backend setup could be a deposit contract that gives us custody of the depositor's Ubiquity Dollars and we can top up their virtual cards.

It might be nice to let the dust settle from the migration to the new bot architecture with separated backends.

Also I don't think it makes sense to invest in the old codebase if FernandVEYRIER is already mostly done with the new version of the conversation incentives.

It's not clear to me how far we are from migrating to the new bot architecture though.

When the task is successfully completed, the gift card activation code is automatically sent to his email. And no more steps.

No we definitely need rolled up balances. Tiny rewards on separate cards seems like horrible UX

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[rndquu]

From reloadly dashboard UI: "eGift voucher is non-refundable/exchange and cannot be exchanged for cash in part or full and is valid for a single transaction only"

Can we check whether gift cards can be used for multiple purchases?

[0x4007]

From reloadly dashboard UI: "eGift voucher is non-refundable/exchange and cannot be exchanged for cash in part or full and is valid for a single transaction only"

Can we check whether gift cards can be used for multiple purchases?

We successfully ran a card twice via Apple Pay. I think that Reloadly definitely checks out for our initial needs.

If we can exceed the $1000 limit somehow I would be pretty happy with the service for our current scope. At least until we find a suitable bank sponsorship on our terms. Then we can offer a superior UX with a single reloadable card per user.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[sergfeldman]

For a test, I added the IP to the whitelisted on the Reloadly. Prepaid gift cards in USD now have a limit of up to 1000 USD. I have not yet found prepaid gift cards with a limit of more than 1000 GBP.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

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[sergfeldman]

@0x4007 This task is related to

• https://github.com/ubiquity/card-issuance/issues/34

The project of the cards integration is completed, and this bounty has actually been completed because we found a suitable provider.

In the scope of this particular task, additional research, account creation and testing of new providers indicated in the comments were carried out. Please, clarify how to receive payment for this bounty.

[ubiquibot[bot]]

@sergfeldman the deadline is at 2024-07-01T18:02:41.780Z

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+ Evaluating results. Please wait...

[ubiquity-os-testing[bot]]

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It's not, at least with https://www.reloadly.com/ By "virtual ca…	16 content: p: count: 80 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.2	3.2
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@sergfeldman Did you activate the card somehow? Or it just work…	3 content: p: count: 15 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.1	0.3
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We haven't yet found a gift card provider with working cards in …	5.4 content: p: count: 27 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.2	1.08
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@sergfeldman hat do you suggest for actionable next steps? You d...	3.4	-	3.4
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100 USD won't get us very far for demos though. It's really a sm...	6.4	-	6.4
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Not looking good so far. Will need to contact support because it...	4.1	-	4.1
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It will take a little while to pass compliance probably (they ha...	7.6 code: count: 1 score: "1" words: 5 hr: count: 1 score: "1" words: 0	-	7.6
I am working on opening up a USA Wyoming LLC for all the card re...	5.1	-	5.1
Perplexity didn't yield an answer on if Reloadly is supported by...	6.2 code: count: 1 score: "1" words: 0	-	6.2
I have a production key but it's directly linked to my bank acco...	13.7	-	13.7
> Okay so I'll need to start that test. I'll look into it on ...	2.1	-	2.1
Bad news: I tried creating a card and it says "account under rev...	9.2	-	9.2
It's unclear if we should axe this project for 2024 because gett...	5.4	-	5.4
> @pavlovcik Can we ask @diamondnegroni to test payment with ...	1.6	-	1.6
> Stripe has rejected our application for enabling a live mod...	37.9 li: count: 22 score: "22" words: 0	-	37.9
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@rndquu Thank you for being ready to test gift prepaid cards. ...	- hr: count: 1 score: "0" words: 0	-	-
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We managed to issue a card to a non-existent person and pay for ...	- li: count: 8 score: "0" words: 82	-	-
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I would politely point out that the integration of gift prepaid ...	18.9	-	18.9
@rndquu Thank you for being ready to test gift prepaid cards. ...	14 hr: count: 1 score: "1" words: 0	-	14
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@rndquu >Can we test a real gift card and try to add to A...	5.5	-	5.5
Following the instructions for gift cards, I activated this Virt...	6.4	-	6.4
Reloadly still has not provided information about the root cause...	4.7	-	4.7
> I am working on opening up a USA Wyoming LLC for all the ca...	8.3	-	8.3
> Reloadly still has not provided information about the root ...	8.4	-	8.4
> Perplexity didn't yield an answer on if Reloadly is support...	4.5	-	4.5
@pavlovcik Can we ask @diamondnegroni to test payment with gift ...	2.9	-	2.9
>I was able to pay my OpenAI bill of $10 successfully. There'...	2.4	-	2.4
We managed to issue a card to a non-existent person and pay for ...	32.1 li: count: 8 score: "8" words: 82	-	32.1
@rndquu >What county of residence did you set for the tes...	8.1	-	8.1
@rndquu >Overall https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/iss...	12.6 li: count: 2 score: "2" words: 21	-	12.6
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> It is unclear to me why they let us choose our BINs but I'l...	7.4	-	7.4
> It will take a little while to pass compliance probably (th...	18 code: count: 1 score: "1" words: 5	-	18
> But according to the dashboard we should be able to test in...	0.4	-	0.4
> I think we're going to need to launch with gift cards after...	5.8	-	5.8
> Is reloadly the only viable option right now? As far as ...	3.6 a: count: 1 score: "1" words: 3	-	3.6
@sergfeldman > We managed to issue a card to a non-existe...	6.6	-	6.6
> @rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Doll...	31.6 a: count: 1 score: "1" words: 1	-	31.6
From reloadly dashboard UI: "eGift voucher is non-refundable/exc...	6.8	-	6.8