Chapter label (before \c 1) and the 5 major sections in the Psalms - relative position?

[DavidHaslam]

When the chapter label \cl .... marker is used once before the first chapter marker \c 1, the label follows the the following usage note:

If \cl is entered once before chapter 1 (\c 1) it represents the text for "chapter" to be used throughout the current book. If \cl is used after each individual chapter marker, it represents the particular text to be used for the display of the current chapter heading (usually done if numbers are being presented as words, not numerals).

This prompts the question as to what should then happen in the rendered view in relation to the position of the chapter label in the book of Psalms for those translations that make use of the 5 major section divisions ?

Should the chapter label be displayed before or after the major section title?

IMHO, the chapter label should appear below the major section title, as the first Psalm in each of these "books" is no different to the subsequent Psalms in the same book. The chapter label "begins" the Psalm, and the first Psalm is logically "within" one of the five "books".

Important

My question should be read only in the context of the usage note for single use of \cl before \c 1.

[RT12Productions]

How about the 22 octet (8-verse) sections within Psalms chapter 119, each of which is headed by a name for a given letter in the Hebrew alphabet?!?! Notice that the 21st (next-to-last) section is usually headed as SHIN, but I seen certain Bible translations use the amended heading SIN AND SHIN, because 3 of its verses start with the SIN (point on the top left corner), while the remaining 5 verses start with the more-familiar letter SHIN.

[cmahte]

The \c and \v markers in USFM are metadata/milestone tags, not presentational markup. They divide the work at those points, but they do not always directly represent the position of the marker that appears in print. The publishing program adds markup at the appropriate point, which is sometimes different than the USFM tags point in the text stream.

The \c marker in the USFM text stream necessarily comes BEFORE any titling or preverse information. This is a necessity for USFM to properly store the text and display it with the correct chapter. However, in most print and digital presentations, the actual chapter marker appears AFTER all the titling and preverse information just prior to or as a replacement for verse number 1. (It is this likelihood that verse one marker doesn't appear in print that makes the \v tag a metatag. Even when verse one is missing in the final work it is assumed and present in the USFM stream.)

The \cl label wherever it appears is also subordinate to this logical repositioning that occurs between the USFM text stream and actual work. The presence of \cl may cause different location, and likely different form (it's own paragraph, and no dropcaps), but it appears where the designers intend, and not necessarily where it occurs in the text stream (which is usually immediately after the \c marker.) That is, while the \cl marker appears in the text stream immediately after the \c marker; USFM intends this to appear in the final work BELOW the titles \mt \ms \s but above descriptors for the chapter \cd and \d, unless the chapter number is drop capped, where the marker appears after all titles and descriptors, as the first part of the verse 1 paragraph.

So... The placement in USFM is proper for USFM. It is the responsiblity of the conversion script to separate the chapter container or milestone function of the \c and \cl from the actual visual marker for the chapter, and move the latter to its most appropriate location.

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 11:23 AM Robert Lloyd Wheelock < notifications@github.com> wrote:

How about the 22 octet (8-verse) sections within Psalms chapter 119, each of which is headed by a name for a given letter in the Hebrew alphabet?!?! Notice that the 21st (next-to-last) section is usually headed as SHIN, but I seen certain Bible translations use the amended heading SIN AND SHIN, because 3 of its verses start with the SIN (point on the top left corner), while the remaining 5 verses start with the more-familiar letter SHIN.

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[DavidHaslam]

@cmahte - Michael - many thanks for your observations. Clearly, my main question does not apply when a separate \cl is used per chapter, where the translator has full control for its location. It only concerns the automatic rendering of the chapter labels when the \cl is used a single time before \c 1 in Psalms. Even then, it become a potential problem only for Psalms 1, 42, 73, 90, 107 - those at the start of each "book".

@RT12Productions - Robert - please stick to the topic. It's no help to comment about matters not directly related to the specific subject of an issue.

[mhosken]

Is this what \ms is for?