Synth Modes

[MainCharacteroftheProblem]

As suggested by lognes. Modes would hide certain options for a cleaner workflow (eg. an NES mode that only allows 3 chip and 1 noise channel, or a Modbox mode that only allows features from that mode, etc.). The current configuration would work as a "superset" mode that houses every feature.

I assume this would work like themes/layouts internally

[MainCharacteroftheProblem]

I think most of the trouble with this would be changing the way certain UI elements work, so you can remove options without messing with the index or forcing sliders to have a smaller range of values and whatnot

[choptop84]

Okay so, I wanna give my opinions on this issue specifically. I don't like the idea at all.

Adding Synth Modes to UltraBox would literally kill any reason to use ModBox at all, this might not seem like that bad of a thing given that ModBox is rather archaic in nature, but there's larger underlying issue than just giving people zero reasons to use ModBox. Adding Synth Modes to UltraBox would remove any desire to ever modify ModBox ever again. The one thing that draws people to ModBox is its unique synth, and some people might also want to make their own mods of ModBox to add things that weren't there before. Adding Synth modes would remove any desire for future modders to try and mod ModBox, which isn't something that we should actively desire.

The great thing about BeepBox Mods is the fact that anyone can start a mod at any time. I know that UltraBox is supposed to be the "Ultimate BeepBox Mod" that "adds all the cool features from other mods". But I think that's not a very good idea. Not only is UltraBox eventually gonna get bloated with features that other mods excel at given their focus on that feature, it's also going to get to a point where UltraBox becomes too overbearing for its own good. Which is why I think having other BeepBox mods that do their own thing is much more interesting and productive. First off, having mods that add unique features gives each BeepBox user their own choice in what they want. Maybe they want a feature that goes well with Electronic music but don't care about a feature that doesn't help them at all with electronic music. Well you could have a BeepBox Mod that focuses on making Electronic music easier for people to make.

ModBox is also one of these situational mods, It has a unique form of synth that no other BeepBox mod has, and that's something special. People that want to use ModBox should just use ModBox, or a mod of ModBox that makes it easier. There's also those recent mods that's been popping up here recently like MidBox and Slarmoo's Box which both add their own form of envelopes that are different from each other in their own way. I think a better direction for UltraBox to take would be to make the most Stable, Reliable, and Standard BeepBox mod to use. That way if people want to use the most polished BeepBox mod instead of all these experimental mods out there, then UltraBox is always there waiting for them to use it.

Overall, I think we shouldn't add this feature. I'm sorry for having you read through my entire essay about my opinions on this feature. But I really do hope that you'll focus on other things instead of this.

[leovoel]

First note: this idea (as I understand it) goes beyond ModBox, so it could just not cover that case.

Adding Synth Modes to UltraBox would literally kill any reason to use ModBox at all

Mods are not zero-sum. And over the years we've seen independent collaborative effort like 3rd party fixing of bugs in ModBox, or other such helpful tooling. So there's no reason to be afraid of efforts that cross mods like this, I think.

Adding Synth modes would remove any desire for future modders to try and mod ModBox

That desire already barely exists, as is the desire to mod anything in first place. Those who really want to do something like that probably will not be stopped by this effort.

I know that UltraBox is supposed to be the "Ultimate BeepBox Mod" that "adds all the cool features from other mods". But I think that's not a very good idea. Not only is UltraBox eventually gonna get bloated with features that other mods excel at given their focus on that feature, it's also going to get to a point where UltraBox becomes too overbearing for its own good.

Some already think Ultra is bloated. I personally think it's a bit silly - plenty of "serious" music programs, even when considered lower quality, are easily 20x more "bloated" than Ultra. Concerns about overwhelming UI can be addressed with more design effort, and similarly there are ways to deal with the more technical problems like code file size. Past that, more features are generally a good thing in creative software (in my opinion, of course).

Which is why I think having other BeepBox mods that do their own thing is much more interesting and productive. First off, having mods that add unique features gives each BeepBox user their own choice in what they want. Maybe they want a feature that goes well with Electronic music but don't care about a feature that doesn't help them at all with electronic music. Well you could have a BeepBox Mod that focuses on making Electronic music easier for people to make.

Yes. There are people who still use (for example) Pandora's Box and are okay with what it has, but there are also people who would rather just have one program to use (this group is probably anxious about all the choices available today). My impression is that Ultra was started to benefit the latter group more. But it's a bit of an impossible idea as I've said before - you can't simply mix everything together anyway. So Ultra is a compromise, just like the other mods.

But I really do hope that you'll focus on other things instead of this.

It's a rather nebulous idea, so it will probably take a while anyway.

Also: I can't speak for Main or Lognes, but the reason I'd want a feature like this would be to edit with the tool I'm comfortable with but potentially publish in a more commonly used format. My dream "mod" would have lots of "bloat" like editor scripting, and a million other very situational tools I know would never make it to, say, vanilla, so I could constrain the sound to that, but keep the rest of my setup intact. This applies for non-BeepBox formats similarly, so it'd be quite interesting to me. But all that only complicates this further, which is what I think will slow down implementing it in first place.