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upend / IF_MS_BUYS_GITHUB_IMMA_OUT

GitHub has sold us out. Time to get out.
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project - build a new Hub #25

Open ghost opened 6 years ago

ghost commented 6 years ago

The new hub is an independent project developed by an community, for a community. It will be a decentralized network of self hosted servers that store the data across the network. Each server will grant access to the global API for third party services like deployment platforms.

vassudanagunta commented 6 years ago

I believe there are a number of existing projects that do that. Can you research and catalog them?

ghost commented 6 years ago

If there would be a really good alternative we would probably know. But I can search for some.

I believe there are a number of existing projects that do that. Can you research and catalog them?

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marcus-sa commented 6 years ago

I would be willing to contribute as long as it'll be a decentralized platform/network which is possible.

I'd suggest the next would be come up with a list of technology we should use for the new git "platform"?

vassudanagunta commented 6 years ago

@marcus-sa some people want a centralized platform, and some people are like you. Rather than get into a heated religious war, how about you write or help write up the distributed option, both the pros and cons, the real world options that exist or that we'd have to build, being honest rather than trying to beat out the centralized/GitLab folks. I'l ask the same of them.

In the end maybe we publish both, or maybe we pick one as the "more recommended".

mehmetaydogduu commented 6 years ago

We can find a method for share hosting costs: Example ideas:

duncup commented 6 years ago

Maybe we can use blockchain to integrate with the new distributed hub, similar to getting a certain token for the server, and the user pays by paying the token. Just an idea.

vassudanagunta commented 6 years ago

@oltdaniel I'm not an expert in this area... Ideally a team of such experts or willing-to-become-experts forms to figure this out. If we can come up with a list of priority tasks for the group, I can post them on the README to attract help. I've sleep 10-13 hours since Friday morning (none last night).

marcus-sa commented 6 years ago

As @duncup mentioned, using a blockchain would be a great idea. What I had in mind would be using https://ipfs.io with https://filecoin.io and something along the lines of https://www.bigchaindb.com

But anyhow this discussion fits better in https://github.com/upend/IF_MS_BUYS_GITHUB_IMMA_OUT/issues/44

Salakar commented 6 years ago

Whilst I like the idea of decentralisation it unfortunately brings a ton of added complexity.

I don't see centralised being a problem if it's foundation based for example; the Mozilla Foundation or the Wikimedia Foundation. Easier for everyone to get on board that way.

That's my 2 cents anyway 😅

ghost commented 6 years ago

@Salakar Join the Slack Group to help starting a discussion

0xferit commented 6 years ago

https://zeronet.io/ can help. Helps to decentralize web apps. FOSS.

Also, I'm really excited about a decentralized GitHub. But not an expert on web applications. Would like to help though.

marcus-sa commented 6 years ago

@ferittuncer nice suggestion, but unfortunately ZeroNet wouldn't be the greatest approach for this, since it requires an application and an underlying network through Tor.

That .bit TLD looks cool tho

ghost commented 6 years ago

While it does require an application, it does not require Tor. Furthermore, everything needed is bundled up into a zip (including python) or an exe for Windows, or you can use an installer I created for ZeroNet.

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

For those who don't have Slack, see this issue to discuss the various existing alternatives.

ghost commented 6 years ago

Let's see what will happen. GitHub is and will be unbeaten for years.

RyanGannon commented 6 years ago

https://gitgud.io/users/sign_in is a hosted GitLab instance.

0xferit commented 6 years ago

Please see #72 @marcus-sa

We found a decentralized platform for hosting Git repositories, working already.

marcus-sa commented 6 years ago

@oltdaniel what happened to the Slack server and Docs document?

ghost commented 6 years ago

@marcus-sa Let us see what will happen to GitHub

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

@marcus-sa It's still up and running. Is it down for you ?

marcus-sa commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas it's nowhere to be found and for me it says the workspace has been deleted.

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

The GitHub alternatives is up, but indeed the Slack shortlink is dead. Perhaps someone can provide a direct link to the board.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas Don't know who manages the spreadsheet, but I can give the information for GitCenter. Hope this helps!

Repo hosting - Yes Public repositories - Yes? This means repositories that can be seen in public right? Because Bitbucket also has this feature, I think, but it's marked as not having it. PR / Code reviewing - Yes Issues / Project management - Yes Collaboration / Teams - Must use forks and PR's for this (due to certain limitations that will be worked on in the future) Community / Social network - Not yet. No social features aside from issues and comments (and a way to see issues in a newsfeed thing listed on what is basically ZeroNet's homepage within the network). Documentation - Not yet. No wiki, etc. Open source - Yes. Source code hosted on GitHub, GitLab, and GitCenter itself. Also, all zite's (websites on ZeroNet) are pretty much open source because you are downloading all of the code of the zite. Decentralized ownership - Yes Extensibility API - Kinda. ZeroNet sites that act as alternative interfaces can utilize the same repositories, and other ZeroNet sites can easily look at and interact with the information of the repositories (with client's permission). Federation - No Mattermost/Matrix/Riot integration - No Available online instance - ?? Self-hosting (own premises) - Yes, in the sense of you are one peer out of potentially many. CI/CD - Not yet. Project website hosting - Not yet. Free of charge - Yes Development done by the community - Yes Scalable - Yes EDIT: High availability - In the sense of you must download ZeroNet to see repos (unless you use a ZeroNet proxy), then not really. In the sense of percent of time it's accessible within ZeroNet, then pretty high (as long as there's one peer).

Regarding a few misconceptions:

0xferit commented 6 years ago

Thanks for listing those @krixano

I think high availability stands for percent of time the service is available. So as it is peer-to-peer I would say it is highly available because it won't be down ever as long as one peer exists.

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

@krixano I manage this spreadsheet. If you want write access, feel free to ask. I'll try to put some of your points over there (don't have much free time these days).

@ferittuncer Having >1 peer online at any time surely guarantees that the whole service stays up, but does every one host have the ability to host all the content (i.e. repositories) ?

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

@marcus-sa The board has been deleted.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas Ok. I did the Edit Access Request with my work email (forgot I was signed into that). It is christian.seibold.ws9@gmail.com

About your question for @ferittuncer, you can seed/host all of the repositories if you have enough disk space, you want to, and the repository owners have made the link to it public. Furthermore, you do not have to host all ZeroNet websites (including repos, since they are basically their own zites), only the ones you want to.

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

@krixano Request accepted.

EDIT: forgot to answer your second comment. So naturally comes the issue of making sure there is >1 copy of any repository at any time. How can this be handled ?

ghost commented 6 years ago

I created a new Slack Team. If anyone is interested in planning nor building a new decentralized hub, join here.

Slack: Join

Github Space: paket-hub

ghost commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas If you want a server to seed all repos (or even just certain specific repos, etc.), all you really need is a computer with internet access and the ZeroNet client downloaded on it. You may also need to open a port (which is done, if possible, automatically by the client using UPnP - or you can manually do this of course).

However, you'd probably need to setup a simple script that will auto-download new repositories when they are published to the Git Center index. But this shouldn't be too hard.

Based on what we are currently seeing, if people consider your repo useful, they will seed it. Currently, many people are seeding the ZeroNet and Git Center repos. There are also many people seeding my repos as well. Also, if you are active on ZeroNet and have the client running at least most of the time (like I do), then you'd be at least one peer, and that'd be enough for other people to download the repo if they so desire.

0xferit commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas Valid point. But again someone can run a dedicated community supported node to ensure this and this won't make it less available than other options. For example, one of the main options is GitLab and someone has to host it too.

In addition, @krixano pointed out that the platform is a collection of sites. No peer for a site means we can't get updates for that particular site, not the entire platform. We will still get updates from online peers' sites. Considering this, I think this makes GitCenter extremely highly available.

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

As I'm pretty new to this ZeroNet technology, and having it tested just now, it seems decent considering what you've said. However, I don't know how mature/stable ZeroNet is ? It wouldn't be ideal to host data on it if important bugs or security issues could appear due to the young age of the software.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas It's been in development for 3 years at least. Everything is secured with private and public keys, where the private keys never leave your computer and all ZeroNet sites are sandboxed. Just as a related sidenote, really any website/platform can have important bugs and security issues at any time (this has especially been seen in big companies that people have hacked, including Yahoo).

Additionally, git is setup so that you have two copies, local and remote/server. If the server one has problems, you still have the local version.

In my just over one year of using ZeroNet, I've never had any major problems with it regarding data loss, hacking, etc.

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

Seems decent, although I personally think GitCenter looks a bit too "simple" compared to GitHub (no teams, pages, etc.). The underlying tech (ZeroNet) could be used to host something else though.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@imachug has plans on adding more things, including Wiki, Website hosting, Following/Watching of commits, etc. However, for the time being, other ZeroNet zites can be created that utilize the GitCenter repos. I was actually planning on making a Kanban and Agile Management site for Git Center repos, just haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm planning on contributing some things to Git Center that I think I'll be able to do, since it is open source.

0xferit commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas We can have a complete software full of features out-of-the-box without freedom or we can be free and complete the software ourselves.

We are all developers here, if we are afraid to build a house for ourselves, well, it's a shame.

Flarp commented 6 years ago

Is the spreadsheet going to be brought here in Markdown form? Everything in one place is nice.

purplesyringa commented 6 years ago

Git Center owner here

Regarding "Git Center being too simple" part - I quite agree with it, and I'd like to add more features there. I'm planning on remaking it with VueJS, libraries and all the stuff I learned after I created it - so it would allow others contribute to this project easily and let me add more features.

aolko commented 6 years ago

please make sure all the premium features out there will be free for all here

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

@ferittuncer I think most of us here will agree on the second option, and as you said it would be a shame to be reticent or afraid to do it. However, I think we should also take migration/development time into consideration.

Even if an hypothetical from-scratch solution might fit all or most of the community's needs (spreadsheet), it will definitely some time to get our hands on a stable product with the bare minimum.

We could also contribute to existing platforms, for example Gitea or GitCenter, but it would still take some time if we wish to have more features before starting to migrate content.

@imachug I personally have experience with Flask, not sure if it can be of any help for future development, but generally speaking, have a more complete experience would definitely be cool (I like the concept of ZeroNet for hosting and for now only GitCenter is there).

@aolko You mean premium features should be free with the alternatives or list these premium features as wanted for them ?

purplesyringa commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas I'm going to write Git Center soon, so I'll add more features.

vassudanagunta commented 6 years ago

Hey all. I love the work you've been doing. Not everyone loves mine. Please read Issue 114.

aolko commented 6 years ago

@Serphentas i mean all these premium features or any similar shall be free in context of the new hub

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

I'll list them under "Other features" in the spreadsheet.

Serphentas commented 6 years ago

Actually there's quite a few of them. I'm not sure if listing them all is really useful ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're mostly little features (albeit good) that don't really matter a lot when comparing two platforms.

aolko commented 6 years ago

mostly interested in image

vassudanagunta commented 6 years ago

reminder this forum is shutting down in 5 hours 20 minutes.

vassudanagunta commented 6 years ago

Hello,

The GitHub Evacuation Project has moved to GitLab (not an endorsement or even a final home). Your enthusiasm and contribution is still needed. Please check out the new project home, and read the project wiki for info to get restarted.

Thank you!

vas