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urbit / urbit.org

The source for urbit.org
https://urbit.org
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Mounting to Unix is now buried information #951

Closed matildepark closed 3 years ago

matildepark commented 5 years ago

From Discord:

Is there a reason that the new install + setup guide doesn't instruct you to run |mount %?

I went and looked and, yes, the site + docs now has very little mention of |mount % anywhere at all.

Should this go at the bottom of install + setup? I feel like it belongs in the Filesystem section, but in general Operations could use a slimming pass, too.

drbeefsupreme commented 5 years ago

You were actually the one who asked to have it removed:

https://github.com/urbit/urbit.org/pull/245

matildepark commented 5 years ago

Mea culpa.

drbeefsupreme commented 5 years ago

Sorry, I could have said that a bit more productively. Should we add it back to this page and call it good? I know slimming the operations page is on somebody's to-do list, so it could be rolled into that.

matildepark commented 5 years ago

I do think it belongs in “using your ship”, alongside maybe a link to that page at the end of install. Spreading information so that some is part of our installation page seems confusing to me rather than basic end-user operations on one page. I’m just surprised Filesystem on Using Your Ship doesn’t have it.

On Nov 5, 2019, at 3:22 PM, poprox notifications@github.com wrote:

 Sorry, I could have said that a bit more productively. Should we add it back to this page and call it good? I know slimming the operations page is on somebody's to-do list, so it could be rolled into that.

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drbeefsupreme commented 5 years ago

This is now partially addressed in urbit/docs#723. tbh I had actually forgotten that we had a separate setup page for the Hoon tutorial.

So at this point I'd agree that the universal setup page does not need mounting instructions (whereas previously I believed it did), and it is good that urbit/docs#723 fixes this in a way that anyone going through the Hoon tutorial will encounter this instruction. So at this point I'd also agree that the other place it belongs in is in Using Your Ship, and then this issue is resolved.

Fang- commented 5 years ago

the universal setup page does not need mounting instructions

Idk, this still feels like a common and necessary enough action that we should include it in general setup, maybe noting that it's primarily useful for user-developers who'll be ferrying files into (and out of) their ships.

drbeefsupreme commented 5 years ago

I think there's good arguments for and against it.

On one hand, there's good sense in not telling people to do anything that isn't strictly necessary, and eventually users will install urbit and it will just work out of the box without having to do just one thing* manually. But right now, probably the vast majority of users will need to mount so it makes sense to have that info very readily accessible.

But if it is the case that almost everyone wants to mount, might we want to make the default behavior to be mounted and thus eliminate this step entirely? At this point, I'd wager that anybody who knowingly doesn't mount is an experienced Urbiteer trying to test something, and so asking them to do the additional step of unmounting is trivial. But instead we make a much greater proportion of users do the mounting that they probably want done anyways. In other words, we currently ask lots of completely inexperienced users to do one step vs. asking a small number of power users to do one step.

I don't know enough about the boot process yet to know whether this is even possible. Is this something that having different pills would allow? So the standard pill we direct them to mounts automatically, while there is some other pill that doesn't mount automatically.

*I think this point is worth debating since I perceive a much bigger difference between asking users to do zero steps after booting for the very first time and one step than there is between asking them to do one step and a few.

ohAitch commented 5 years ago

On a technical level, having "no automount" be a vere flag, which if absent causes it to send a "mount whatever is default" request to clay, is fairly trivial.

on a UI level, the removal of automount and autocommit has certainly been a longstanding gripe of mine, for basically these reasons. (autocommit at least had some legitimate synchronization/revert issues)

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 07:42, poprox notifications@github.com wrote:

I think there's good arguments for and against it.

On one hand, there's good sense in not telling people to do anything that isn't strictly necessary, and eventually users will install urbit and it will just work out of the box without having to do just one thing* manually. But right now, probably the vast majority of users will need to mount so it makes sense to have that info very readily accessible.

But if it is the case that almost everyone wants to mount, might we want to make the default behavior to be mounted and thus eliminate this step entirely? At this point, I'd wager that anybody who knowingly doesn't mount is an experienced Urbiteer trying to test something, and so asking them to do the additional step of unmounting is trivial. But instead we make a much greater proportion of users do the mounting that they probably want done anyways. In other words, we currently ask lots of completely inexperienced users to do one step vs. asking a small number of power users to do one step.

I don't know enough about the boot process yet to know whether this is even possible. Is this something that having different pills would allow? So the standard pill we direct them to mounts automatically, while there is some other pill that doesn't mount automatically.

*I think this point is worth debating since I perceive a much bigger difference between asking users to do zero steps after booting for the very first time and one step than there is between asking them to do one step and a few.

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rmariani commented 4 years ago

https://github.com/urbit/urbit.org/pull/328