382 medium of performance

[CECSpecialistI]

https://github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/blob/main/Working%20Documents/3XX.csv

[CECSpecialistI]

@AdamSchiff @CatalogerCate Alice and I just started working on the 382 field and have some questions. What is the difference between "medium of performance" and "medium of performance for musical content of representative expression"? Also, what is indicated by the second indicator here, "Access control"? The options are # for no information provided, 0 for not intended for access, and 1 for intended for access. What is "intended for access" referring to here? Thank you for sharing your expertise!

[CatalogerCate]

We haven’t really started using the second one yet. The whole representative expression is a “new rda” concept that hasn’t been implemented. But basically, the medium of performance is what you have in hand, let’s say a recording of a sonata with flute and piano. The representative expression would be the instrumentation of what is considered to be the “most authoritative version” of the work, which might be violin and piano. Basically the cataloger would decide the instrumentation of the representative expression regardless of what they have in hand. They could be the same if the medium of performance is the same at the “representative expression”.

The second indicated of the 382 just allows systems to ignore the 382 if they don’t want to do the programming to get the display to work. In OCLC was always use 1 for intended for access (will be used for access), but if your system doesn’t want to figure out how to display this field, you might locally set it to 0. That’s because this field takes lots of work to get it to display in a meaningful way to the public.

Here’s an example.

MARC: 382 01 baritone voice ǂn 1 ǂa piano ǂn 1 ǂs 2 ǂ2 lcmpt Primo turns that into: For baritone voice; piano. Total performers: 2.

The primo display isn’t great, but it’s more clear than the 382 MARC field.

Does that help?

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 4:24 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

@AdamSchiffhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/AdamSchiff__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!jTxQvZNNbCQj39grQWqA_FYih9P8fVsrrb5_kJWp6VBhlh_DZ9VhWpCLCbb_H_l1YI01tvzrf1fGWqbBnjA1xFI$ @CatalogerCatehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/CatalogerCate__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!jTxQvZNNbCQj39grQWqA_FYih9P8fVsrrb5_kJWp6VBhlh_DZ9VhWpCLCbb_H_l1YI01tvzrf1fGWqbBkQclI-4$ Alice and I just started working on the 382 field and have some questions. What is the difference between "medium of performance" and "medium of performance for musical content of representative expression"? Also, what is indicated by the second indicator here, "Access control"? The options are # for no information provided, 0 for not intended for access, and 1 for intended for access. What is "intended for access" referring to here? Thank you for sharing your expertise!

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/issues/171*issuecomment-1432279331__;Iw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!jTxQvZNNbCQj39grQWqA_FYih9P8fVsrrb5_kJWp6VBhlh_DZ9VhWpCLCbb_H_l1YI01tvzrf1fGWqbBI186UWY$, or unsubscribehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVX7HCRASFTBJNGFRCC3GKTWXVXQZANCNFSM5IXLPMZQ__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!jTxQvZNNbCQj39grQWqA_FYih9P8fVsrrb5_kJWp6VBhlh_DZ9VhWpCLCbb_H_l1YI01tvzrf1fGWqbBIyYYh6U$. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.**@.>>

[CECSpecialistI]

Yes, that helps a lot! Thank you, Cate!

[CECSpecialistI]

Does it make a difference to the display whether it is full vs. incomplete? (1st indicator 0 vs. 1?)

[CatalogerCate]

Nope, the first indicator allows you to code just part of the instrumentation. For instance, you might have a recordings with a soprano, but there is no indication what the instrumentation is for the accompanying ensemble, so you could put “soprano voice’ in and not try to figure out what other instruments are that are accompanying her. Or, perhaps it varies on every track and it’s not possible to added 20 382s for all the different combinations of instruments. So, you just indicate the important soloist.

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 4:44 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

Does it make a difference to the display whether it is full vs. incomplete? (1st indicator 0 vs. 1?)

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[AdamSchiff]

medium of performance for musical content of representative expression is a work attribute and would be the "canonical" medium of performance that the work was originally conceived and written for.

medium of performance is an expression attribute and could be recorded for the original expression of the work or for arrangements for different medium of performance.

Here's an example:

WORK AUTHORITY:

100 1# Andriessen, Louis, ǂd 1939-2021. ǂt Elegy, ǂm cello, piano 046 ## ǂk 1957 ǂ2 edtf 382 2# cello ǂn 1 ǂa piano ǂn 1 ǂs 2 ǂ2 lcmpt 670 ## Andriessen, L. Elegy, cello or double bass and piano, c2002: ǂb t.p. (Elegy, cello or double bass and piano) t.p. verso (composed in 1957 for violoncello and piano; arr. in the early 1990s for double bass and piano)

EXPRESSION AUTHORITY:

100 1# Andriessen, Louis, ǂd 1939-2021. ǂt Elegy, ǂm cello, piano; ǂo arranged 046 ## ǂk 199X ǂ2 edtf 382 0# double bass ǂn 1 ǂa piano ǂn 1 ǂs 2 ǂ2 lcmpt 670 ## Andriessen, L. Elegy, cello or double bass and piano, c2002: ǂb t.p. (Elegy, cello or double bass and piano) t.p. verso (composed in 1957 for violoncello and piano; arr. in the early 1990s for double bass and piano)

In a bib record for this manifestation cited in the 670 above:

100 1# Andriessen, Louis, ǂd 1939-2021. 240 10 Elegy, ǂm cello, piano 245 10 Elegy, cello or double bass and piano / ǂc Louis Andriessen ; version for double bass edited by Quirijn van Regteren Altena. 260 ## [London?] : ǂb Boosey & Hawkes, ǂc ©2002. 300 ## 1 score (5 pages) + 2 parts ; ǂc 31 cm 382 2# cello ǂn 1 ǂa piano ǂn 1 ǂs 2 ǂ2 lcmpt 382 0# ǂ3 Original ǂa cello ǂn 1 ǂa piano ǂn 1 ǂs 2 ǂ2 lcmpt 382 0# ǂ3 Arrangement ǂa double bass ǂn 1 ǂa piano ǂn 1 ǂs 2 ǂ2 lcmpt

Does this help?

Adam

Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries (206) 543-8409 @.***

---

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 4:23 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Adam L Schiff @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

@AdamSchiffhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/AdamSchiff__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!j4c7jHPCmbP-JpWyks51qi2jpk-qmnC2AEOKmYc65uOxPmt0C6tvhKy7U11jGPsApu4rtTYgE3KPgNSz7PyGsGY$ @CatalogerCatehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/CatalogerCate__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!j4c7jHPCmbP-JpWyks51qi2jpk-qmnC2AEOKmYc65uOxPmt0C6tvhKy7U11jGPsApu4rtTYgE3KPgNSzltiARcA$ Alice and I just started working on the 382 field and have some questions. What is the difference between "medium of performance" and "medium of performance for musical content of representative expression"? Also, what is indicated by the second indicator here, "Access control"? The options are # for no information provided, 0 for not intended for access, and 1 for intended for access. What is "intended for access" referring to here? Thank you for sharing your expertise!

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/issues/171*issuecomment-1432279331__;Iw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!j4c7jHPCmbP-JpWyks51qi2jpk-qmnC2AEOKmYc65uOxPmt0C6tvhKy7U11jGPsApu4rtTYgE3KPgNSz2FvPY6Y$, or unsubscribehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADFBVB75UV6M35EKRY4I3A3WXVXQZANCNFSM5IXLPMZQ__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!j4c7jHPCmbP-JpWyks51qi2jpk-qmnC2AEOKmYc65uOxPmt0C6tvhKy7U11jGPsApu4rtTYgE3KPgNSzr29buLs$. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[AdamSchiff]

Well ideally if it is incomplete, the display would be labeled as such to indicate that it isn't the complete MOP.

Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries (206) 543-8409 @.***

---

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 4:44 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Adam L Schiff @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

Does it make a difference to the display whether it is full vs. incomplete? (1st indicator 0 vs. 1?)

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/issues/171*issuecomment-1432298625__;Iw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!m9N1C4b8oKVRGj4A4Y4gt5AXlg3rRAhAEjAH8wH7AGVXgCQ3aS1PfjpNkGEV_3ha552-kBoUKX6rF5geVr_Ewwc$, or unsubscribehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADFBVB54OGUUYMHAFORAPWLWXVZ5HANCNFSM5IXLPMZQ__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!m9N1C4b8oKVRGj4A4Y4gt5AXlg3rRAhAEjAH8wH7AGVXgCQ3aS1PfjpNkGEV_3ha552-kBoUKX6rF5gekDOvlnc$. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[CECSpecialistI]

Thank you @AdamSchiff ! Will reflect the work vs. expression properties and incomplete vs. complete in the mapping draft.

[CECSpecialistI]

Thank you for explaining the MARC indicators, @CatalogerCate ! Very handy to have a music cataloger to consult, I was lost.

[CatalogerCate]

Happy to help!

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 5:07 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

Thank you for explaining the MARC indicators, @CatalogerCatehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/CatalogerCate__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!l2klOA4oe-mxzGji4iRfpm5da9-fT6-VUcHxAkBCAdJT6ax_9qsWLW8Ga_o9JNaE7rV-shn7sNxK7G-h-bDNkFU$ ! Very handy to have a music cataloger to consult, I was lost.

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[CECSpecialistI]

@junghaelee , @cwarc and I are struggling with the conditions for this mapping. Does Primo have norms rules that control display for the MARC 382 field that our mapping could borrow? How does our system generate the human-readable displays in Primo?

[junghaelee]

We display subfields in the 382 field as they appear in MARC record. We insert punctuations for readability. Here is the display norm rules for the 382 field, which includes detailed information of the purpose of each rule stanza.

https://github.com/Orbis-Cascade-Alliance/ve-norm-rules/blob/main/Display_lf87_Instrumentation.txt

[CECSpecialistI]

@pan-zhuo @gerontakos would it be possible to simplify this mapping significantly, and rather than trying to express how we want string outputs formatted using conditions in the spreadsheet, to write the transform code based on these norm rules? If you take a look at the spreadsheet I've been working on, the conditions are getting extremely granular, all for the sake of outputting a string value with the right words in the right order. All the conditions/transformation notes are in progress and most of them aren't correct.

[CatalogerCate]

I’m not sure quite how to read this norm rules, but I think the most important thing in the 382 is that order matters! When a $a, b, and n appear in the 382 they go together. There may well be multiple instances of a, b, p, and n, but they absolutely have to stay clumped together to make any sense. If somehow the $a’s all got put together, then the $b’s etc., it would be useless.

For example:

$a flute $b piccolo $n 2 $a oboe $b English horn $n 1

The first $b has to go with the first a and the second b needs to stay with the second a. The first $n must stay with the first a, and the second $n must stay with the second $a.

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:09 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

@pan-zhuohttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/pan-zhuo__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIAqpMjdw$ @gerontakoshttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/gerontakos__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIRYZrt5U$ would it be possible to simplify this mapping significantly, and rather than trying to express how we want string outputs formatted using conditions in the spreadsheet, to write the transform code based on these norm ruleshttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/Orbis-Cascade-Alliance/ve-norm-rules/blob/main/Display_lf87_Instrumentation.txt__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIoxXbnpA$? If you take a look at the spreadsheethttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PE1UNwxxxcNdV4wTZqUNYYvbtTrPt4XOpSS5A8UT_x4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIlHbGfHA$ I've been working on, the conditions are getting extremely granular, all for the sake of outputting a string value with the right words in the right order. All the conditions/transformation notes are in progress and most of them aren't correct.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/issues/171*issuecomment-1472743062__;Iw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIePLGAJk$, or unsubscribehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVX7HCRSQJP7PDJIZCMBZTTW4N6P5ANCNFSM5IXLPMZQ__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIovFWwcA$. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.**@.>>

[CECSpecialistI]

Right, the endless combinations of orders of subfields that make a difference in meaning is what is making the mapping so complex. If we could just map to properties based on indicators and then use the Primo norm rules to output the string values it would save a lot of work.

[AdamSchiff]

I completely concur with Cate, and it is for this reason that the URIs in MARC group said that you cannot include URIs for the individual instruments in the 382 field since the order is important.

I do have a question for you though Cate:

$a flute $b piccolo $n 2 $a oboe $b English horn $n 1

There are two flutes, but are there two piccolos that double them, or just 1 piccolo doubling a flute?

Adam

Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries (206) 543-8409 @.***

---

From: Cate Gerhart @.> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:45 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Adam L Schiff @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

I’m not sure quite how to read this norm rules, but I think the most important thing in the 382 is that order matters! When a $a, b, and n appear in the 382 they go together. There may well be multiple instances of a, b, p, and n, but they absolutely have to stay clumped together to make any sense. If somehow the $a’s all got put together, then the $b’s etc., it would be useless.

For example:

$a flute $b piccolo $n 2 $a oboe $b English horn $n 1

The first $b has to go with the first a and the second b needs to stay with the second a. The first $n must stay with the first a, and the second $n must stay with the second $a.

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:09 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

@pan-zhuo<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/pan-zhuo__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIAqpMjdw$%3E @gerontakos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/gerontakos__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIRYZrt5U$%3E would it be possible to simplify this mapping significantly, and rather than trying to express how we want string outputs formatted using conditions in the spreadsheet, to write the transform code based on these norm rules<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/Orbis-Cascade-Alliance/ve-norm-rules/blob/main/Display_lf87_Instrumentation.txt__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIoxXbnpA$%3E? If you take a look at the spreadsheet<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PE1UNwxxxcNdV4wTZqUNYYvbtTrPt4XOpSS5A8UT_x4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIlHbGfHA$%3E I've been working on, the conditions are getting extremely granular, all for the sake of outputting a string value with the right words in the right order. All the conditions/transformation notes are in progress and most of them aren't correct.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/issues/171*issuecomment-1472743062__;Iw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIePLGAJk$%3E, or unsubscribe<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVX7HCRSQJP7PDJIZCMBZTTW4N6P5ANCNFSM5IXLPMZQ__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIovFWwcA$%3E. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.**@.>>

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[CECSpecialistI]

Right, I don't think IRI's will be appropriate here, I think the notes we have displaying in Primo are the goal, really.

[CatalogerCate]

Sorry! Should be:

$a flute $2 $d piccolo $n 1 $a oboe $n 1 $d English horn $n 1

So, 2 flutes, one doubling piccolo and one oboe doubling English horn! And, $d NOT $b. Geez.

Cate

From: Adam Schiff @.> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:58 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

I completely concur with Cate, and it is for this reason that the URIs in MARC group said that you cannot include URIs for the individual instruments in the 382 field since the order is important.

I do have a question for you though Cate:

$a flute $b piccolo $n 2 $a oboe $b English horn $n 1

There are two flutes, but are there two piccolos that double them, or just 1 piccolo doubling a flute?

Adam

Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries (206) 543-8409 @.<mailto:@.>

---

From: Cate Gerhart @.<mailto:@.>> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:45 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.<mailto:@.>> Cc: Adam L Schiff @.<mailto:@.>>; Mention @.<mailto:@.>> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

I’m not sure quite how to read this norm rules, but I think the most important thing in the 382 is that order matters! When a $a, b, and n appear in the 382 they go together. There may well be multiple instances of a, b, p, and n, but they absolutely have to stay clumped together to make any sense. If somehow the $a’s all got put together, then the $b’s etc., it would be useless.

For example:

$a flute $b piccolo $n 2 $a oboe $b English horn $n 1

The first $b has to go with the first a and the second b needs to stay with the second a. The first $n must stay with the first a, and the second $n must stay with the second $a.

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.<mailto:@.>> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:09 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.<mailto:@.>> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.<mailto:@.>>; Mention @.<mailto:@.>> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

@pan-zhuo<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/pan-zhuo__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIAqpMjdw$%3E @gerontakos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/gerontakos__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIRYZrt5U$%3E would it be possible to simplify this mapping significantly, and rather than trying to express how we want string outputs formatted using conditions in the spreadsheet, to write the transform code based on these norm rules<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/Orbis-Cascade-Alliance/ve-norm-rules/blob/main/Display_lf87_Instrumentation.txt__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIoxXbnpA$%3E? If you take a look at the spreadsheet<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PE1UNwxxxcNdV4wTZqUNYYvbtTrPt4XOpSS5A8UT_x4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIlHbGfHA$%3E I've been working on, the conditions are getting extremely granular, all for the sake of outputting a string value with the right words in the right order. All the conditions/transformation notes are in progress and most of them aren't correct.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/issues/171*issuecomment-1472743062__;Iw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIePLGAJk$%3E, or unsubscribe<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVX7HCRSQJP7PDJIZCMBZTTW4N6P5ANCNFSM5IXLPMZQ__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIovFWwcA$%3E. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.**@@.%3chttps:/urldefense.com/v3/https:/github.com/gerontakos;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIRYZrt5U$%3E%20would%20it%20be%20possible%20to%20simplify%20this%20mapping%20significantly,%20and%20rather%20than%20trying%20to%20express%20how%20we%20want%20string%20outputs%20formatted%20using%20conditions%20in%20the%20spreadsheet,%20to%20write%20the%20transform%20code%20based%20on%20these%20norm%20rules%3chttps:/urldefense.com/v3/https:/github.com/Orbis-Cascade-Alliance/ve-norm-rules/blob/main/Display_lf87_Instrumentation.txt;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIoxXbnpA$%3E?%20If%20you%20take%20a%20look%20at%20the%20spreadsheet%3chttps://urldefense.com/v3/https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PE1UNwxxxcNdV4wTZqUNYYvbtTrPt4XOpSS5A8UT_x4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIlHbGfHA$%3E%20I've%20been%20working%20on,%20the%20conditions%20are%20getting%20extremely%20granular,%20all%20for%20the%20sake%20of%20outputting%20a%20string%20value%20with%20the%20right%20words%20in%20the%20right%20order.%20All%20the%20conditions/transformation%20notes%20are%20in%20progress%20and%20most%20of%20them%20aren't%20correct.%0b%0b—%0bReply%20to%20this%20email%20directly,%20view%20it%20on%20GitHub%3chttps://urldefense.com/v3/https:/github.com/uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA/issues/171issuecomment-1472743062__;Iw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIePLGAJk$%3E,%20or%20unsubscribe%3chttps://urldefense.com/v3/https:/github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AVX7HCRSQJP7PDJIZCMBZTTW4N6P5ANCNFSM5IXLPMZQ;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIovFWwcA$%3E.%0bYou%20are%20receiving%20this%20because%20you%20were%20mentioned.Message%20ID:%20**@.**@.>>>

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[AdamSchiff]

Got it, thanks for the correction. Much clearer with $n's after each of the other subfields.

Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries (206) 543-8409 @.***

---

From: Cate Gerhart @.> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 3:02 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Adam L Schiff @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

Sorry! Should be:

$a flute $2 $d piccolo $n 1 $a oboe $n 1 $d English horn $n 1

So, 2 flutes, one doubling piccolo and one oboe doubling English horn! And, $d NOT $b. Geez.

Cate

From: Adam Schiff @.> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:58 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

I completely concur with Cate, and it is for this reason that the URIs in MARC group said that you cannot include URIs for the individual instruments in the 382 field since the order is important.

I do have a question for you though Cate:

$a flute $b piccolo $n 2 $a oboe $b English horn $n 1

There are two flutes, but are there two piccolos that double them, or just 1 piccolo doubling a flute?

Adam

Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries (206) 543-8409 @.<mailto:@.>

---

From: Cate Gerhart @.<mailto:@.>> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:45 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.<mailto:@.>> Cc: Adam L Schiff @.<mailto:@.>>; Mention @.<mailto:@.>> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

I’m not sure quite how to read this norm rules, but I think the most important thing in the 382 is that order matters! When a $a, b, and n appear in the 382 they go together. There may well be multiple instances of a, b, p, and n, but they absolutely have to stay clumped together to make any sense. If somehow the $a’s all got put together, then the $b’s etc., it would be useless.

For example:

$a flute $b piccolo $n 2 $a oboe $b English horn $n 1

The first $b has to go with the first a and the second b needs to stay with the second a. The first $n must stay with the first a, and the second $n must stay with the second $a.

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.<mailto:@.>> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:09 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.<mailto:@.>> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.<mailto:@.>>; Mention @.<mailto:@.>> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 382 medium of performance (Issue #171)

@pan-zhuo<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/pan-zhuo__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIAqpMjdw$%3E @gerontakos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/gerontakos__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIRYZrt5U$%3E would it be possible to simplify this mapping significantly, and rather than trying to express how we want string outputs formatted using conditions in the spreadsheet, to write the transform code based on these norm rules<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/Orbis-Cascade-Alliance/ve-norm-rules/blob/main/Display_lf87_Instrumentation.txt__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIoxXbnpA$%3E? If you take a look at the spreadsheet<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PE1UNwxxxcNdV4wTZqUNYYvbtTrPt4XOpSS5A8UT_x4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gr5_8Fdt0LvWnnjAYHQURGfEN9JUkfhkxM_7J08DYY2CkOsOB4hs_gosx47h1MAIA2O-U0Wiu45EyXpIlHbGfHA$%3E I've been working on, the conditions are getting extremely granular, all for the sake of outputting a string value with the right words in the right order. All the conditions/transformation notes are in progress and most of them aren't correct.

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[CECSpecialistI]

faceting rules https://github.com/Orbis-Cascade-Alliance/ve-norm-rules/blob/main/Facet_lf59_MusicMediumPerformanceStatement.txt

[CECSpecialistI]

@AdamSchiff @GordonDunsire @cwarc @gerontakos I got a response to the email inquiry we discussed at last week's meeting:

"The documentation that Gordon refers to is a series of email conversations that we had regarding how a complete rendering of the medium of performance of musical content for an expression could be expressed in a linked data friendly way in the context of the RDA element set.

The issue is how do you associate the instrument with the quantity required and how does one take the instrument/quantity combo and associate it with the other combinations in the expression. The solution, if one could call it that, would be to have properties for the instrument required and the number of instruments required; a class whose sole purpose would be to relate the instrument to the quantity; and then another property that would order and format the instrument/quantities according to a string encoding scheme:

ex:NumberOfInstrumentsStatement [ rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent "violin" . ex:numberOfInstruments "2" . ] , [ rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent "viola" . ex:numberOfInstruments "1" . ] , [ rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent "cello" . ex:numberOfInstruments "1" . ] .

"violin (2) viola (1) cello (1)" . But notice that for a relatively simple MOP like this one, we are generating 3 separate blank nodes, which is less than ideal. This also has the added problem of adding a new class to RDA, which we want to avoid at all costs. The solution that we would probably prefer, but have not yet pursued, is that rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent would probably just be fine with having the value for the instrument/voice and that a MOP statement element could provide the context and the quantities, without having to have a separate element for the number of instruments: rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent "violin" , "viola" , "cello" . ex:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContentStatement "violin (2) viola (1) cello (1)" . For ex:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContentStatement, the string encoding scheme could specify to follow the instrument by a quantity, without having to have a separate element for the quantity. With regards to your mapping from MARC field 382 to RDA in the current environment, I am mostly in agreement with your map. A single instrument or voice is acceptable in the rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent element or its work counterpart. It should also be said that the element could also be used to express a full medium of performance as an unstructured note, so it is not necessary to use "has note on expression": 382 0# $a violin $n 2 $a viola $n 1 $a cello $n 1 $s 4 could be mapped as rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent "violin" , "viola" , "cello" , "violin (2), viola (1), cello (1) (total performers: 4)" . (or alternatively) rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent "violin (2)" , "viola (1)" , "cello (1)" , "violin (2), viola (1), cello (1) (total performers: 4)" . or if you want to use the IRIs for the MOP terms and a string for the combined statement: rdae:mediumOfPerformanceOfMusicalContent lcmpt:violin , lcmpt:viola , lcmpt:cello , "violin (2), viola (1), cello (1) (total performers: 4)" . More than happy to talk further about this, Damian Damian Iseminger RDA Technical Team Liaison Officer"

[CECSpecialistI]

LCMPT & IFLA vocabularies have URI's for instruments

[CECSpecialistI]

@CatalogerCate ,

We've copied over the Alliance norms rules for display of the 382 field as a note for the MARC2RDA mapping. Part of these rules indicate that certain aspects of the 382 be displayed using square brackets. Because square brackets can sometimes have specific meanings in MARC data that aren't applicable here, @GordonDunsire has suggested that we replace them with parenthesis. @pan-zhuo mentioned that MLA has guidance on punctuation for display of 382 fields, which could be a reason to leave the square brackets as they are. Do you have any thoughts on this? How about @AdamSchiff ?

[pan-zhuo]

Here's the MLA/MOUG Display Preferences document https://musicoclcusers.org/wp-content/uploads/WCD_Medium_Report_201504291.pdf

9. Insert square brackets around content in $v (58%)     382 01 mixed chorus $v SATB     mixed chorus [SATB]     Note: 41% preferred parentheses; square bracket would provide differentiation from numeric values

[CatalogerCate]

If you look at the most recent MLA best practices for the 382 (https://cmc.wp.musiclibraryassoc.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2023/03/BestPracticesforUsingLCMPT_1-5_20230301.pdf), you will not see any indication that square brackets or parentheses should be used. Any use of that kind of thing is purely for display and NOT for use in the MARC field. When mapping, I would not indicate anything should be put in brackets or parentheses. Cate

[CECSpecialistI]

Thanks Cate!