034 coded cartographic mathematical data

[CECSpecialistI]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16vNApnGCl1dN--sFhFuTQ5Iqser8RdH8hsEP_-dObog/edit?usp=sharing

[CECSpecialistI]

@GordonDunsire @CatalogerCate @AdamSchiff , @pennylenger and I are working on the 034 mapping, and ran into something in RDA that confused us. The options for treatment for cartographic resources representing areas of latitude/longitude and celestial charts that are cartographic resources representing areas of right ascension/declination seem to require catalogers to record the information inconsistently. For latitude/longitude, the option says to "Separate the north and south coordinates with a hyphen. Do not use a space before or after the hyphen." The PCC policy statement says to use two hyphens. For declination/right ascension, it says to "Record both separated by the term to." The PCC policy statement says to apply the option. Why are we recording these two similar pieces of data using different conventions? Should they be made consistent with one another? Also, why does PCC add a hyphen to the RDA option for latitude/longitude? This seems like it will do nothing but add inconsistency between PCC and non-PCC RDA data. Thanks for any insights! -Crystal & Penny

[CECSpecialistI]

We had another question. Why is scale an expression element and latitude/longitude/etc. work elements?

[CatalogerCate]

Because the latitude and longitude of a place do not change! However the scale of map definitely does. Think about an AR, you wouldn’t put a scale statement, but you would definitely put a coordinate statement.

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 5:04 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 034 coded cartographic mathematical data (Issue #68)

We had another question. Why is scale an expression element and latitude/longitude/etc. work elements?

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[CatalogerCate]

I’m going to have to reach out to others to get an explanation for this… I’ll let you know what I find out.

Cate

From: Crystal Yragui (Clements) @.> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 5:00 PM To: uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA @.> Cc: Cate Gerhart @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [uwlib-cams/MARC2RDA] 034 coded cartographic mathematical data (Issue #68)

@GordonDunsirehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/GordonDunsire__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!lcrPiFIsMjMldkg76HdzH8EiHKfXmOEgXUUl8b2aIbV5l5egBttRmYrbSaXpj4yfQDoiJy6XVO2cXz0JvzUI-S8$ @CatalogerCatehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/CatalogerCate__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!lcrPiFIsMjMldkg76HdzH8EiHKfXmOEgXUUl8b2aIbV5l5egBttRmYrbSaXpj4yfQDoiJy6XVO2cXz0Jxsn2lDc$ @AdamSchiffhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/AdamSchiff__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!lcrPiFIsMjMldkg76HdzH8EiHKfXmOEgXUUl8b2aIbV5l5egBttRmYrbSaXpj4yfQDoiJy6XVO2cXz0JdIzMfJY$ , @pennylengerhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/pennylenger__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!lcrPiFIsMjMldkg76HdzH8EiHKfXmOEgXUUl8b2aIbV5l5egBttRmYrbSaXpj4yfQDoiJy6XVO2cXz0JqvFGr2M$ and I are working on the 034 mapping, and ran into something in RDA that confused us. The options for treatment for cartographic resources representing areas of latitude/longitude and celestial charts that are cartographic resources representing areas of right ascension/declination seem to require catalogers to record the information inconsistently. For latitudehttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/access.rdatoolkit.org/en-US_ala-272a6d53-63f4-3bd8-8996-a43533cfb7d0/div_hbm_zz3_v2b__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!lcrPiFIsMjMldkg76HdzH8EiHKfXmOEgXUUl8b2aIbV5l5egBttRmYrbSaXpj4yfQDoiJy6XVO2cXz0JAzv4k54$/longitude, the option says to "Separate the north and south coordinates with a hyphen. Do not use a space before or after the hyphen." The PCC policy statement says to use two hyphens. For declinationhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/access.rdatoolkit.org/en-US_ala-ea3e641b-4347-318d-8aab-64c3eec70178/div_j1w_mnw_52b__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!lcrPiFIsMjMldkg76HdzH8EiHKfXmOEgXUUl8b2aIbV5l5egBttRmYrbSaXpj4yfQDoiJy6XVO2cXz0JI8Den7I$/right ascension, it says to "Record both separated by the term to." The PCC policy statement says to apply the option. Why are we recording these two similar pieces of data using different conventions? Should they be made consistent with one another? Also, why does PCC add a hyphen to the RDA option for latitude/longitude? This seems like it will do nothing but add inconsistency between PCC and non-PCC RDA data. Thanks for any insights! -Crystal & Penny

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[GordonDunsire]

I'm guessing the different punctuation in RDA comes from usage by different communities; that is geographical vs celestial cartographers.

The PCC punctuation may come from issues with hyphen, en-dash, and em-dash punctuation marks: I think the double-hyphen is historically used for em-dash in systems that can't support extended character sets. Someone should write a book about the influence of punctuation marks on information retrieval systems: the restricted ISBD punctuation set (i.e. manual typewriters and catalogue cards); differences in cultural usage; the embedded ISBD punctuation in MARC 21 records (at least one whole chapter); smart quotes vs straight quotes; embedding quotes in value strings; ... :-)

[CECSpecialistI]

Thank you @CatalogerCate and @GordonDunsire ! We came across another question about celestial charts that we couldn't quite answer. What is the difference between right ascension/declination and g-ring latitude and longitude? We searched for a definition of "g-ring" in the context of cartography/celestial charts and couldn't find much. I've never used this element when cataloging celestial charts. Can we do better than "has details of cartographic content" for the g-ring latitude/longitude elements? @AdamSchiff @pennylenger

[GordonDunsire]

We can use the element rdaw:P10024 'has coordinates of cartographic content'. This includes all kinds of coordinate system. Specification of the coordinate system to which the value pertains is accommodated by local refinement of the element, say 'has g-ring coordinates of cartographic content', or by data provenance. The RDA refinements for right ascension/declination, longitude/latitude, and coordinate pairs are legacy elements.

[pennylenger]

We can use the element rdaw:P10024 'has coordinates of cartographic content'. This includes all kinds of coordinate system. Specification of the coordinate system to which the value pertains is accommodated by local refinement of the element, say 'has g-ring coordinates of cartographic content', or by data provenance. The RDA refinements for right ascension/declination, longitude/latitude, and coordinate pairs are legacy elements.

We can use the element rdaw:P10024 'has coordinates of cartographic content'. This includes all kinds of coordinate system. Specification of the coordinate system to which the value pertains is accommodated by local refinement of the element, say 'has g-ring coordinates of cartographic content', or by data provenance. The RDA refinements for right ascension/declination, longitude/latitude, and coordinate pairs are legacy elements.

@GordonDunsire I appreciate your response, and I have another inquiry. I've noticed that the RDA element coordinates of cartographic content, as specified under [MARC 21 Bibliographic], includes subfields $d, e, f, g, s, t, j, k, m, n, r, s, t . Particularly, the subfield $r represents the distance from Earth-Distance of celestial bodies, such as planets or stars, from the Earth in light-years in star atlases. My question is, can we also map this subfield $r to coordinates of cartographic content?

[GordonDunsire]

@pennylenger: My appreciation of MARC 21 and map cataloguing is limited, but it seems to me that a distance is an ordinate, not a coordinate. So it would only be appropriate to map 034 $r to rdaw:P10024 if it is combined with another ordinate in a 'coordinate system' such as right ascension/declination, latitude/longitude, etc. I don't understand the example given in the MARC manual.