The hardblock was added to prevent Explorer from crashing when ExplorerPatcher is installed.

[Michellehdr]

Hi Team,

The hardblock was added to prevent Explorer from crashing when ExplorerPatcher is installed. You only need to adjust the setup exe name to get around the block in your new version. We will continue to block ANY version that crashes Explorer.

Please let me know if you have any question.

Thanks Michelle

[Amrsatrio]

@Maxstate69 I have more facts that you might find interesting, please drop me a DM through EP's Discord server: https://discord.gg/gsPcfqHTD2

[Maxstate69]

@Maxstate69 I have more facts that you might find interesting, please drop me a DM through EP's Discord server: https://discord.gg/gsPcfqHTD2

Thank you, I will. It will take some time, as I am in the middle of an international move...

[dxgldotorg]

I understand that and the whole discussion around it, but really, it's my computer and I wish I could do what I wanted with it, whether ms intends as much or not.

I'm a privacy lawyer and am trying to contribute to EU legislators coming down on this sort of behavior. Windows is the de facto standard OS in billions of cases. We should have more control over something that our day to day infrastructure relies upon. We're lucky to have had things like explorerpatcher in the meantime.

In the worst of all possible worlds, I'd love for Ms to just tell me how much they want me to pay for a debloated, af-free, telemetry-free and customizable version of windows. I'll give them what they want and the transaction should be over at that point. But this sort of drug dealer behavior is really not my cup of tea.

If you are in fact a privacy lawyer, have you looked at the Diagnostic Data Viewer? This can reveal all the telemetry data sent to Microsoft. You might if concerned about telemetry want to look at the kind of data Bambu Lab 3D printers collect as it has tried to hide such info until reverse engineered.

That said, customizability of built-in UI elements may be outside the scope of your law practice.

[Maxstate69]

I understand that and the whole discussion around it, but really, it's my computer and I wish I could do what I wanted with it, whether ms intends as much or not. I'm a privacy lawyer and am trying to contribute to EU legislators coming down on this sort of behavior. Windows is the de facto standard OS in billions of cases. We should have more control over something that our day to day infrastructure relies upon. We're lucky to have had things like explorerpatcher in the meantime. In the worst of all possible worlds, I'd love for Ms to just tell me how much they want me to pay for a debloated, af-free, telemetry-free and customizable version of windows. I'll give them what they want and the transaction should be over at that point. But this sort of drug dealer behavior is really not my cup of tea.

If you are in fact a privacy lawyer, have you looked at the Diagnostic Data Viewer? This can reveal all the telemetry data sent to Microsoft. You might if concerned about telemetry want to look at the kind of data Bambu Lab 3D printers collect as it has tried to hide such info until reverse engineered.

That said, customizability of built-in UI elements may be outside the scope of your law practice.

No, i haven't, but thanks for the heads-up. However, in European privacy and consumer law, it's up to Microsoft to inform their users properly about things like telemetry. Furthermore, it's only legitimate for them to process personally identifiable data insofar as it's necessary for their well-described and legitimate purpose. I think the ranks are closing around this sort of stuff, slowly but surely.

I'll leave it at that for now.

With regard to customizability: there is an emergent overlap in law concerning digital services, rights and software. See for instance the upcoming EU Digital Services Act. Things like consumer rights for digital services, but also the right and possibility to repair one's devices are part of this. A final element to add is antitrust, or in other words: avoiding monopolies and oligopolies where one or a handful of powerful players control the market and thus dictate consumer power.

When this situation occurs, it becomes very difficult for people to find alternative solutions for their daily use-cases, businesses, etc. If and when they do, they are often laborious, burdensome, require specialized knowledge, are exclusionary, or simply would not function without the backdrop of the major players' infrastructure to begin with.

Consumers should not be faced with this situation. They should have alternatives that fulfill their wishes in their corresponding use cases. The market should make this possible. That was the entire point of market economics applied to consumer electronics. This is not a technical, but a legal and mainly economic limitation.

In conclusion: customizability will fall under this umbrella soon enough, as the law crystallizes. Consider that the gdpr mandates that users' data must be portable, for instance.

That'll be enough from me.

[hondacbr600]

Hmm, seems reasonable... Too bad. It would be nice if they left people the choice to use what they want, for instance by putting it back if they want...

Unless it's an option in windows itself, I don't think MS intended anyone to use the windows 10 taskbar in windows 11.

MS also wants to show ads in the start menu, etc and EP bypassed that.

Which is stupid, I'd rather move the favorites/quick launch folder to desktop and use the shortcuts from there, than use the start menu. MS Power Toys has really nice search function, so I will deny stupid start menu from showing up completely.

[YellowAfterlife]

Wanted to stop by to say... gosh darn

I could see this as the final step as the Win10 taskbar is made all but redundant, but it's been a few years and Win11 taskbar is still quite lacking if you'd rather see the labels on a bunch of windows at once (be it through moving it to the side of the screen or adding a second row when necessary)

Replacing important system components with third-party solutions is certainly fun, but doesn't feel like that should be necessary... especially for features that were part of the OS for a couple decades before that.

[SIBtomcat]

Do I understand correctly that the taskbar in the new version (after removing the W10 taskbar) will only be large? "Taskbar icons size" is "medium" (large - actually). And there is no way to make the taskbar small?

[hondacbr600]

small

Yes. And the QuickLaunch toolbars also

[pyrates999]

I don't see the point of the quick launch toolbar anymore since you can now pin applications on the taskbar itself.

[hondacbr600]

I don't see the point of the quick launch toolbar anymore since you can now pin applications on the taskbar itself.

[0xF5F5F5]

Since the legacy Explorer Taskbar has been killed off, please consider feedback that re-enables more Windows 10 Taskbar features, especially resizing and moving the Taskbar.

Most people have widescreen displays, and some have ultrawide displays, and thus vertical space is a bit more at a premium, hence why some people like to put their Taskbar on the side of the display.

Speaking of Window 10 taskbar features, the Windows 11 taskbar fails to work with XMeters (https://entropy6.com/xmeters/), it looks like the Deskband API is not implemented in the Windows 11 taskbar. I regularly saw Lenovo ThinkPads showing a battery icon on the Windows 10 taskbar using the Deskband API, so it is not exactly a niche feature of Windows. It is surprising to see Windows 11's new taskbar ignoring it.

[detcordtech]

For me, one of the main reasons to be using EP was to put my taskbar on top or side whenever I want with win10 taskbar/battery/calendar/etc.

Microsoft seems to have jumped on the brainless bubbly bandwagon -

1. Changing themes, adding rounded corners -- no one wanted this
2. Adding too many zones (old zones were enough)
3. Liking their own features so much that they announce a new version of windows (11) going back on their own word when they said "10 will be the last one"
4. Removing the most well-known features and saying it's "too difficult" to maintain them down the road from their own OS
5. Getting annoyed when awesome devs (you all) manage to make their (closed source) code work with all features
6. Being pathetic and petty, adding crash bombs in their own code, to prevent people from bringing old and well made features back, since this proves, "it's actually not that difficult"

It makes me laugh, when big tech companies spend actual development time into adding "crash bombs" in their own old code just so that the tiny 3% of users using these tweaks won't be able to get what they want. Why are they so despicably petty...? 😂

If you can, please fight their intentional garbage and reconsider adding win10 taskbar, even if it's under a separate branch/repo/name/etc and even if it's a bit unstable. I grew up with windows (xp, 7, 10, 11) and it's sad to see it in such a state.

EP (with w10 taskbar) is the only one that can make Win11 daily drivable for me... please save it if possible 🙏

Until then I'm staying on the last pre-release before this change was made (22621.3296.64.3), running W11 23H2 22631.3296 hoping this feature will be revived/saved someday. Win updates are blocked so it should remain stable for now.

[Azarien]

Changing themes, adding rounded corners -- no one wanted this

If they don't change the looks people would complain lack of any innovation, because nothing's visibly changed.

[Maxstate69]

You can innovate without losing features, so I believe this is a false dichotomy

tor. 6. juni 2024, 12:58 skrev Azarien @.***>:

Changing themes, adding rounded corners -- no one wanted this

If they don't change the looks people would complain lack of any innovation, because nothing's visibly changed.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/issues/3053#issuecomment-2152018443, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AWXEYYY7CGEG37D5U5HIFWLZGA6GXAVCNFSM6AAAAABFHS2EHKVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDCNJSGAYTQNBUGM . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[A7exSchin]

Just stumbled over this thread while looking for a way to bring the task bar to the left side because it just makes sense on widescreen displays. It reminds me of the time when Microsoft killed the EdgeDeflector and forced users to use Bing and Edge...

If these changes go live it is just a bigger argument for using Linux for work and something like AtlasOS for Gaming.

[doterik]

I guess this is the right thread for my current problem.

Explorer always restarts. An information window shows that EP will be shut down due to crashes, but nothing happens, Explorer keeps restarting.

Windows 10.0.22635.3785 (latest symbols file downloaded) EP 22621.3527.65.2 (automatically installed some time ago)

I have restarted the computer a few times but with the same result.

When I tried to uninstall via the command ep_setup.exe /uninstall, a window showed that the uninstall was completed. In connection with this, I received several virus warnings and files quarantined which, for me, are difficult to manage without a 'Desktop'. (The only thing that happened was the window showing that EP is to be disabled now is gone.)

On new reboots, Explorer continues to restart repeatedly. By killing the process, I can run a command prompt, but if I was content with that I might as well install Linux.

What can I do? How do I get Windows to work again?

[pyrates999]

Update to the latest pre-release: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/releases/tag/22621.3527.65.5_6f6666b

[doterik]

@pyrates999 Thank you for your response.

Unfortunately, the version provided did not resolve the issue.

The behavior remains unchanged; Explorer is caught in an endless restart loop, accompanied by a recurring notification that EP will be disabled - though nothing changes.

I attempted to uninstall EP once more, yet Explorer persists in restarting. This time, the EP notification window is absent; instead, there’s a continuous alert about the symbols file has been downloaded, yet the taskbar remains invisible. I was compelled to terminate the process again.

Following a reboot, the same issue recurs. The notification has disappeared, but Explorer continues to restart endlessly.

Could EP have replaced any Windows files, or might there be registry changes that can be undone?

[Amrsatrio]

@doterik I have not tested that particular Beta build yet, but will check it out soon to see if something is fixable. In the meantime please delete C:\Windows\dxgi.dll.

[doterik]

@Amrsatrio That was a quick reply...

Don't have it in \Windows, I suppose you mean \Windows\System32.

What about \Windows\SysWOW64 ?

[Amrsatrio]

Hm, weird, if Explorer keeps crashing even without that file present it means there is something wrong with that build or your Windows install. Also please do not delete C:\Windows\System32\dxgi.dll, it is a crucial system file.

[doterik]

@Amrsatrio Hmm...mysterious...

Should I copy the one from \Windows\System32 to \Windows ?

Could running a sfc /scannow help? (I suppose it at least can't hurt.)

[Amrsatrio]

No, do not do that copy as well. I don't know about running sfc /scannow honestly, worth a try. I've had similar Explorer crash loops even without EP on beta builds in the past. I can say that Beta builds are unstable sometimes.

[doterik]

@Amrsatrio Ok, thanks for your answer.

The latest beta version (.3785) started normally. I think it was in connection with when the symbols file was downloaded, at a later time, and then a restart of Explorer that the problems arose. I don't think there was anything wrong with the symbols file, but something may have gone wrong with the restart of Explorer.

I'll try running sfc and we'll see...

[doterik]

@Amrsatrio SFC didn't help, unfortunately, not a single error.

Come to think of it, isn't \Windows\dxgi.dll from EP, and if so, it was probably removed during uninstall (quite in order).

Thanks anyway for your support.

[raxpyraxp]

So basically as I understand - there will be no way to stick the taskbar to the top of the screen? I see that Win11 taskbar has no such option now. Do someone knows an alternative for this? I don't mind switching to Win11 taskbar if that's how things are going now. Guess I can get used to larger icons, but bottom taskbar is a little bit painful change for me

[robpomeroy]

Do someone knows an alternative for this?

I don't mean this flippantly: this has made me seriously consider finally switching to a Linux desktop. I would just need to do an audit to check which software I use would need to run in a Win11 VM.

I've had the taskbars at the sides of my dual monitors for so many years that the bottom taskbar feels like a very retrograde step.

[raxpyraxp]

this has made me seriously consider finally switching to a Linux desktop

I legit want give it a try again. I only moved from Linux as a daily driver because of the online games that I've been playing (don't want to risk my accounts to be banned for cheating as some of them don't play nice with wine/proton) and due to some instability on my hardware that might've been fixed by now

[TheKidRock]

@Michellehdr Only reason I use EP is to display 2 clocks on the Taskbar. Default clock allows 2 clocks only on hovering but I used Atomic Alarm Clock which lets me display 2 clocks to display 2 different timezones on Taskbar Tray. On default Windows 11 taskbar, I get this error "Trayclockwclass not found" but after installing EP and enabling Windows 10 taskbar, atomic clock used to work fine. Now, in Windows 11 24H2, neither the clock is working nor EP's Windows 10 taskbar. So, is it possible to let me have 2 clocks display on Windows 11 taskbar? Is there a solution for Trayclockwclass error? I haven't found any other clocks that have features to display 2 clocks on taskbar.

[Veyilla]

Is there a way to minimize the taskbar and its icons? I find the fixed size unsightly and annoying. That's actually why I downloaded the program, I was never interested in the Win10 taskbar. I would just like it to look smaller again and only show me the time, without the date, as it used to be possible to set under win10.

My operating system is as follows:

Edition: Windows 11 Pro Version: 24H2 Operating system build: 26120.994 Performance: Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.6.0

[pyrates999]

Is there a way to minimize the taskbar and its icons? I find the fixed size unsightly and annoying. That's actually why I downloaded the program, I was never interested in the Win10 taskbar. I would just like it to look smaller again and only show me the time, without the date, as it used to be possible to set under win10.

My operating system is as follows:

Edition: Windows 11 Pro Version: 24H2 Operating system build: 26120.994 Performance: Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.6.0

Try this: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/how-to-change-taskbar-size-in-windows-11/

[mrplow]

two rows of applications is not possible with 24h2 as far as I can see. Reg tweaks only resize the bar/icons but still don't allow proper resizing. {sarcastic}Good job MS!{/sarcastic}

[AJolly]

I don't see the point of the quick launch toolbar anymore since you can now pin applications on the taskbar itself.

Quick launch gives you hotkeys - Win+1, Win+2, Win+3 etc

[Veyilla]

Is there a way to minimize the taskbar and its icons?

Try this: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/how-to-change-taskbar-size-in-windows-11/

This is not more functional in the new Versions of Windows 11...

[levitation]

@Michellehdr

@Amrsatrio thanks for the update. Looking forward to the new release. And long termly, it will be great if you could update the app to stop using undocumented code to prevent current and future issues.

Your concern regarding future compatibility is understandable.

At the same time, with all due respect, I am wondering whether you are sure that your request to not use undocumented code complies with EU DMA (https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/)?

Essentially, Microsoft as a operating system developer and therefore sort of gatekeeper should not create functions which provide unfair advantage to Microsoft's other software. That would be anti-competitive. The functionalities Microsoft implements into the operating system should be available for all software developers, not only to Microsoft. Since these undocumented functionalities are inevitably part of the operating system, then it is fair that other developers use them just as freely as Microsoft themselves would use them.

Ideally, Microsoft should make these functions documented since it can be assumed that internally Microsoft has this documentation available for developers of other Microsoft's software. But if these functions stay undocumented, then at least it should not be requested that others refrain from using them.

Curious, how do these considerations land with you?

PS. I do not represent ExplorerPatcher, I am an independent user and software developer.

[pyrates999]

I think undocumented code is code that can change with every new update that is released for windows. It's not guaranteed to stay the same. So the compatibility can change if that code changes.

[daltroaugusto]

@Amrsatrio thanks for the update. Looking forward to the new release. And long termly, it will be great if you could update the app to stop using undocumented code to prevent current and future issues.

Maybe if you LISTEN quickly to your users and stop capping Windows features to align to MICROSOFT values and opinions on UI, everything would be great. Another good shot would be to DOCUMENT YOUR entire codebase; anyway, this ir OUR software that WE got to OUR own use.

f#ck M5

[0xF5F5F5]

@Amrsatrio thanks for the update. Looking forward to the new release. And long termly, it will be great if you could update the app to stop using undocumented code to prevent current and future issues.

Maybe if you LISTEN quickly to your users and stop capping Windows features to align to MICROSOFT values and opinions on UI, everything would be great. Another good shot would be to DOCUMENT YOUR entire codebase; anyway, this ir OUR software that WE got to OUR own use.

f#ck M5

I agree just because the blocker is too strict, and is ironically blocking some people from uninstalling the very product that Microsoft is blocking people from running on their computers.

The blocker should warn the user with a consent prompt (the kind used for UAC), it should warn the user twice, and then run it. I think that would be a decent "compromise". But I just noticed that ExplorerPatcher has a new implementation of the Windows 10 taskbar, I'm interested in seeing how it works. It is claimed to be compatible with 24H2. I always thought that a re-implementation of the taskbar would be necessary because the existing code would be removed from Windows sooner or later. I was more surprised that Microsoft left it in there for this long.

One more thing. I've been using the old taskbar for a while, but for the past month I've been using ExplorerPatcher solely for the Simple Window Switcher. Now I can't work without it. Switching between an app's windows with Alt + Tilde? Microsoft should implement that asap, but they won't. First time I saw it was in Mac OS X, mid-2000s. Obviously other desktops like KDE can be configured to do this. Gnome comes with this functionality, because ever since Gnome 3 Tablet Edition came out they just like to copy Mac OS X (often times a bad interpretation, but still). Anyway, I'm happy that ExplorerPatcher has made as much progress as it has. They even automated the process of compiling ExplorerPatcher, on the user's system, with low friction. It's a great idea, and unheard of in the Windows world!

[kkiris]

I get this error when I try to update ExplorerPatcher… Is this the block or something different?

If it matters, I'm running Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (build 22635.3936), and my current ExplorerPatcher version is 22621.3810.66.1.

[pyrates999]

I get this error when I try to update ExplorerPatcher… Is this the block or something different?

If it matters, I'm running Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (build 22635.3936), and my current ExplorerPatcher version is 22621.3810.66.1.

yes, it is windows defender blocking the pre-release of EP.