network-to-network collaboration. presentation and demo to explain power of valueflows vocab and open app ecosystem

[Connoropolous]

Hey all! We have this 2 day 'enspiral and friends' gathering happening on October 13-14 in SF, and I'm going to go down for it. Some of you may know of it, others may not. Here's some relevant comments about it "Can we begin to imagine together, and create, a vision of the open, collaborative web that we could all build together, and find ways to collaborate between our organizations and initiatives?" "Goals: Building Relationships and Trust Exploring what we might do together Beginning to discover actionable next steps for community-to-community collaboration"

I think that what's going on here between us all is incredibly important to that conversation, and I'd like to be an advocate and interpreter for the vision that is being activated here, and the 'mad science' as Mikey says.

I'd like to do that in multiple ways at the gathering, which I've already been preparing for.

1. create a presentation with the intention of demystifying this openvocab conversation and sharing out that presentation ahead of time
2. hosting a conversation at the session where we open this topic for a while, and get feedback from the many non-technical people there, and how they interpret this, and try to develop clarity where it's lacking. this is with the hopes of rallying endorsement through understanding of those who are there
3. demoing a small prototype of the personator. A first, super primitive, web app that is equipped to play in the valueflows web application ecosystem. This can help ground the vision in showing that building things that actually work like this is within reach.
4. making mention of the 'linked-data-creator-api' and highlight how focusing on enablers developers to build valueflows based web apps by writing code libraries is a high leverage action, on the ecosystem level

You might have already seen this new repo that I created in the valueflows space... the linked-data-creator-api. Mikey has already said that he supports the development of this. I'd really love the input of @elf-pavlik on this though too, because frankly some of what I'm doing is actually really stretching my own knowledge. "enable github as database, json-ld style, using the valueflows vf vocabularies" https://github.com/valueflows/linked-data-creator-api

And now I have a new little repo, which I think you all might like, its a (super simple) web ui where you fill out a form and it automatically creates a github repo with your jsonld file directly based off of the example Person json files that Mikey and Elf created. There's screenshots there, please check it out :) I actually think, @ahdinosaur, that this repo would be best suited to go in the Holodex org, which I'd also like to become a collaborator on, what do you think? "A tiny web application whose sole purpose in life is to enable someone signed in with github to create, view, edit, or delete their personal linked open data profile with type: Person" https://github.com/holodex/personator

One of the key concepts of the linked-data-creator-api library is that it keeps an index of all the open data created by the application(s) using it, for querying in a mongodb database. Basically a cache. THe various applications who wanted to create an ecosystem of open data would all connect to this same mongo database for the index of people/users, orgs, and all the other resources. Do others have a different understanding of how to federate the open data? Perhaps we could open a new issue, over in that repository if so.

My main point in the presentation was going to be...

1. reduce the redundancy of all the 'personal profile' fields in the users table of the various web platforms such as loomio, cobudget, metamaps, hylo, NRP, etc. and all of the development hours that go into them
2. reduce the redundancy of the membership information for groups, in the various groups tables on platforms like hylo, cobudget, and loomio, and multiple developers managing code for group membership
3. enable the federation of a schema for resources used within platforms such as metamaps and hylo... projects, offers, intentions, requests, events, most of which show up in both platforms, but have no interoperability

This fits the goal of being modular because there is just one application that you would go to, to edit your profile. The apps themselves would begin to link to one another, for various functions, and different people within our network could focus on the maintenance of different aspects such as profile editing, and group membership administration. The apps would collectively rely on being signed in to/with github.

Crazy ideas, but they actually feel kind of tangible at this point, relatively speaking :) I am seeking all of your input in the next few days as I begin a presentation. I'll post the link here as soon as I create it. I know this all might feel a bit of the blue, coming from me, but I've been doing my very best to keep up with these conversations, and looking for a while for the high value "way in".

I think that it will be powerful to bring something to the gathering that has elements of co-creation between those of who have worked within these various spheres and networks such as Edgeryders, OuiShare, Metamaps, Enspiral, Sensorica, and such :)

[simontegg]

Hi Connor,

I think this great! I'm totally cool with you presenting personator and referencing the work here though my json-ld knowledge is sketchy these days.

I've invited you to the holodex org, where you can shift personator to. Most of the action is in the compost refactor branch where I'm figuring out redux . [I'm actually about to have a busy two weeks then a one week holiday, so I may not respond quickly]. Look forward to doing a proper holodex call and you giving us the push we need on some org work.

[Connoropolous]

Great @simontegg! I've moved personator over to the holodex org.

[fosterlynn]

@Connoropolous I think it is great if you make the link to Valueflows in the SF gathering, and would be interested to see your presentation if you get it done in time, coming right up now, .... :smile:

its a (super simple) web ui where you fill out a form and it automatically creates a github repo with your jsonld file directly based off of the example Person json files that Mikey and Elf created. There's screenshots there, please check it out :) I actually think, @ahdinosaur, that this repo would be best suited to go in the Holodex org

Hey, this potentially connects up some missing links! (And please excuse and ignore me if I'm overstepping, Holodex people, just getting excited here....) So, if Holodex has a way to enter agent data that creates a store that can return json-ld, then the json-ld to Holodex UI link is basically made, true? Might also be part of or mesh with the @ahdinosaur plan around the creation of json-ld and other LOD formats from a neutral store? Would have to extend eventually to agent relationships too...... and sounds like it starts to address single signon.... anyway, great line of thinking.

[fosterlynn]

@Connoropolous also if they are recording or streaming anything, let us know, would love to watch!

[Connoropolous]

Today was intense, been up from 4am to almost 2am EST, now I'm in San Francisco, but I worked hard at a presentation today and it might be completely insane I don't even know at this point lol, but I haven't shown it to anyone besides you all yet, anyhow it's not even done yet, it needs a few pictures and diagrams put in. Anyways, maybe it will be a conversation piece here at this gathering so I would love your input on it asap :)

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1_gzZzv278b12VrZiczJEtxLKf9TSF9YQd-uMZWQE3LU/edit?usp=docslist_api

[Connoropolous]

It is probably way too long... but its easy to save that copy and strip things out of a cloned copy

[ahdinosaur]

@Connoropolous this is amazing, i love what you're doing. :smile_cat:

[bhaugen]

@Connoropolous I second what @ahdinosaur said. Very clear, beautiful to see somebody with fresh eyes explain what we are trying to do.

May I suggest some improvements? For "Initial proposed languages: Nodejs and RubyOnRails" on slide 29, please add "Nodejs, RubyOnRails, and Django(Python)". We already have ValueFlows code in Django. See the Agent stuff @fosterlynn has been doing. A lot more to come, we'll be developing the whole valueflows vocab in Django.

Re people, please add Elio Qoshi who just created our stunning logo.

For diagrams, you might be able to use something like this (or not):

Or you could redraw that, better. That diagram comes from this essay about how everything is connected in value flows. So it would be possible to do many different pictures of that idea.

Or yell if you know what you want, it might already exist.

[bhaugen]

Here's another, from a Sensorica slide deck:

[ahdinosaur]

@Connoropolous: it needs a few pictures and diagrams put in

@elioqoshi: if you're interested and available, we'd appreciate any visual designs to supplement Connor's presentation on what we're doing here, especially in whatever way that you feel communicates your understanding of what we're doing. :smile:

[bhaugen]

@Connoropolous - I love "epic synthesis". Truly epic!

Oh, and one more thing: just re-read the slide deck. The first section, I think, liberates the soul of this project, moreso than anything else we've done. All of it, really, but this is one glimpse:

Value Flows is a common language that can be spoken and understood by our various web platforms (and any others that might emerge)

[Connoropolous]

Great to hear all of that :) Would you believe that it was created in one day while travelling from Toronto to SF using stick it notes posted to plane windows and then created on my phone? Because I barely do, lol.

I've added Django Bob. I'll add in the name as well.

By the way, the logo looks really great :)

I do have a rough diagram that I was going to try and do in a nicer digital form, but I'll also put the raw one here and see what it sparks :) On Oct 13, 2015 3:02 AM, "Bob Haugen" notifications@github.com wrote:

@Connoropolous https://github.com/Connoropolous - I love "epic synthesis". Truly epic!

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/valueflows/valueflows/issues/55#issuecomment-147668747 .

[simontegg]

So great.

[bhaugen]

@Connoropolous - please tell stories about the event, after you get some rest.

[elioqoshi]

I'm getting confused here! :D Do you want me to redesign @Connoropolous 's slides?

[bhaugen]

@elioqoshi - no. I think it's too late for that anyway, he has probably already presented them.

But you could take a look at those overview diagrams above, and think about them for awhile, and see if anything comes to you in a dream. You could read about how everything is connected in value flows if you want.

And whatever you do, we'll use it. But really, if you enjoy doing it. If not, don't do it. We're really happy about the logo. Seemed like you enjoyed it too. Contribute as it pleases you.

Maybe if there's some other time, like the logo, when we really really need something and we are not getting there ourselves, we will beg.

[Connoropolous]

I will report in asap and share back as much as I can.

I haven't presented it yet, not at all. But the opening circle here was literally all about shared language, interfaces (in the broad sense), translations, and so forth :) on all the levels, human to human down to the deep technical.

It's the right, or ripe, time for this conversation On Oct 13, 2015 2:04 PM, "Bob Haugen" notifications@github.com wrote:

@elioqoshi https://github.com/elioqoshi - no. I think it's too late for that anyway, he has probably already presented them.

But you could take a look at those overview diagrams above, and think about them for awhile, and see if anything comes to you in a dream. You could read about how everything is connected in value flows https://github.com/valnet/valuenetwork/wiki/Everything-is-connected if you want.

And whatever you do, we'll use it. But really, if you enjoy doing it. If not, don't do it. We're really happy about the logo. Seemed like you enjoyed it too. Contribute as it pleases you.

Maybe if there's some other time, like the logo, when we really really need something and we are not getting there ourselves, we will beg.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/valueflows/valueflows/issues/55#issuecomment-147853511 .

[simontegg]

@Connoropolous It might help to be prepared for questions about social impact. What's the connection between self-hosted, distributed personal data and social impact? Its often not that obvious to many people.

some angles:

• cheap integration.
• common language as "contracts". The value of contracts in building trust and enabling large-scale collaboration.
• monopoly power. How does monopoly power arise and maintain itself?
• How can we mitigate that?

[Connoropolous]

Thanks @simontegg, it will definitely be good to ground it more deeply into social impact.

[Connoropolous]

Just wrote up this little summary for somewhere else of what's present now that today and yesterdays sessions just ended, so I will share it here too. This valueflows conversation, I believe, would do really well to align in some way with this... or maybe they will track alongside one another up until the right moment/point of integration...

"Okay! the sessions are over, we're still here overnight but things are slowing down for the time being. Some novel things are definitely arising. With people here coming from loomio, cobudget, hylo, metamaps, civicmakers, and more, there was a lot of resonance towards a 'collaborative software consortium', and what that might look like in the short term is actually the possible co-design and adoption of a common user interface element, that serves common uses, such as the 'top bar' found on Hylo. There is a sort of matrix formed between 'communities' and 'platforms/interfaces', that can be maintained as context as you navigate between them. So we talked about creating interoperability through coherence on the User Experience/ User Interface level. Very powerful. This plays into the story of 'people and groups' being a starting point in a common vocabulary. There is another idea of having a 'badge' that would represent this consortium. along with it would come a minimum viable set of 'principles' that informs these platforms. others could potentially join."

"After 20 years in the show business, I became an overnight success" - someone who was quoted in the last 2 days whose name I don't remember.

[Connoropolous]

I have brought in my translation of Value Flows as much as I have been able to, I didn't 'give a presentation', but I provided the link to it and I think people will be checking it out, and I referenced the presentation I had made many times, and the whole theme of the presentation was extremely present here of 'interfacing and translations'. So in terms of impact I think people here will be coming away with, at least, a greater awareness of the work that is going on in Value Flows, which I think is valuable in and of itself.

[simontegg]

Thanks @Connoropolous

[bhaugen]

@Connoropolous - lots of people have been looking at your slides and commenting on them, in the sensorica and ovn-infrastructure google groups, for one place. And I heard from Tibi that another conversation about them was going on elsewhere. So they are doing their job.

This valueflows conversation, I believe, would do really well to align in some way with this.

Makes sense to me. Does "this" have any ongoing identity to align with? (Forgive me if I should have known.)

P.S. the slide deck made it over here, too: https://fair.coop/groups/technology-infrastructure-community-group/forum/topic/value-flows-ope-vocab-project/

[elioqoshi]

I'm not sure if I understand the concept of the diagram correctly, but here is a simplified version of it. I quite like it visually, I just hope I didn't make any logical errors here :)

[bhaugen]

Wow! Beautiful! I love it to pieces!

Where should we put this? Tee-shirt, too?

[elioqoshi]

Thanks! Simplified it a bit more. Might look good as posters.

[fosterlynn]

@elioqoshi this is awesome!! And good simplification.

@bhaugen and all - I'm puzzling over a couple details, as we talk about using this. Thoughts:

• Maybe change the top section to Open Value Network, given other value networks are represented in other sections?
• Love having Fair Co-op represented, but not sure we want one specifically named entity there? Trying to think of what is the generalization of that? OR taking it up a level, we are working with some new forms too, like the MAN of Madison - mutual credit, time banking. How can we use the 4 sections to get a representative idea of what it is?
• In the explanation at the bottom: would be nice to get 'Process or Exchange' in with the Interaction, since those will be prominent in the vocab and also explain better what we are actually thinking.

Elio, don't take any of this as something to change, needs to be discussed first!

[bhaugen]

@fosterlynn - I agree with your ideas about representative networks.

Maybe one for Cooperatives or Open Cooperatives and another for Mutual Aid Networks? I think MAN also covers mutual credit.

[bhaugen]

Where's the best teeshirt service where you can post a design and everybody can order their own teeshirt? I know such things exist.

(You can tell I want that teeshirt!)

[elioqoshi]

I think Teespring should do that @bhaugen

@fosterlynn I'm quite clueless on how to understand the diagrams but I hope my versions make sense :)

[bhaugen]

@elioqoshi - did this help? how everything is connected in value flows

If not, I'll keep trying until you understand, if you are willing to continue to ask questions. We need this to make sense to other people, not just us. Not just look beautiful, but also communicate.

Also, @fosterlynn is working on a few suggestions for improvement that might help.

[fosterlynn]

At the risk of going back to the original topic: :)

With people here coming from loomio, cobudget, hylo, metamaps, civicmakers, and more, there was a lot of resonance towards a 'collaborative software consortium', and what that might look like in the short term is actually the possible co-design and adoption of a common user interface element, that serves common uses, such as the 'top bar' found on Hylo.

@Connoropolous This is very cool, and a good name too! Another leg for the infrastructure chair. There is an effort coming out of the Impact Economy summit held recently in BC, Canada, that we'll get hooked in here too as it gets going. (Actually, you might be connected to that already.) Really encouraging that all these individual pieces of work are starting to coalesce....

[fosterlynn]

From @bhaugen and my walk-n-talk this morning: Suggestions for the names on the 4 sections:

• Open Value Network (at the top)
• Cooperative (replaces multi-stakeholder coops)
• Regional Economic Ecosystem (as is)
• Mutual Aid Network (replaces faircoop)

We were thinking of pinging the MAN folks to see if this makes sense to them.

What do you all think?

[gcassel]

@elioqoshi I too love that simplified diagram. :)

[fosterlynn]

Here is a proposal for the bottom key:

Resource -- Input -- Process -- Output -- Resource (resource) -- Give -- Exchange -- Take --

So replace the word Interaction with Process, then add new terms under the diagram: Give under Input, Exchange under Process, Take under Output. (Is that clear? I can draw it too.)

What do you all think, does that help explain the vocab?

[gcassel]

@bhaugen I'm trying to understand the value network and flows concepts, as someone who's relatively non-techy. I greatly appreciate your desire to make this all make sense to other people. Does it seem accurate to say that one of the main goals here is to enable systems in which the transactions between practically 'neutral' agents are as fair as possible?

I'm trying to reconcile traditional economics with concepts such as 'the gift economy' , which tends in my experience to be used vaguely with reference to crowdfunding, crowdsourcing and gifts based on personal relationships. I'm certainly quite interested in making transactions as fair as possible.

[gcassel]

@fosterlynn I don't know what effort is coming out of the Impact Economy summit in BC, but it may be good timing for someone to 'catch up' with Caroline S. if that's not already happening. I don't know her personally, but I noticed some of her old comments regarding Open Apps-- https://www.loomio.org/d/sKCNdenw/p2p-economics-and-commons-based-reciprocity-licenses#comment-270863

[bhaugen]

@gcassel thanks for the questions.

The ValueFlows project and the diagrams @elioqoshi designed emerged from this situation all of the participants were seeing. Where many groups and software projects around the world were experimenting with alternative economic relationships. And we want all of those groups and projects to be able to work together.

So the diagram shows some representative types of groups. I'll go with @fosterlynn's suggestion and list Open Value Networks, Cooperatives, Mutual Aid Networks, and Regional Economic Ecosystems. And our goal is to internetwork all of them. Or actually, to provide vocabularies and protocols where they can internetwork each other, as they wish.

All of them have desires to make economic relationships more fair, but they have, in some cases, slightly different ideas about how to do that.

I could get into traditional economics or why all of these groups are doing these experiments if you want, but maybe in some other thread.

Please let me know if that communicated, or if not, ask questions or suggest improvements.

[gcassel]

Thanks @bhaugen , that was helpful, and I think your description matches my general perceptions. I think I was rushing and abstractly reducing things to a limited use-case with the concept of "fair transactions between practically neutral parties". I understand that you're trying to improve communications tools and practices, so that people understand how value and resources are flowing. Whether or not those 'flows' are 'fair' can be determined by the agents involved, based on their perceived relationships with each other.

Does your concept of "Regional Economic Ecosystems" include all traditional nation-state currencies, reserves and banking systems, etc? (Trade is global now, obviously, but is still based on the exchange rates of nation-state currencies. I know this stuff gets messy.)

[bhaugen]

@gcassel - "Regional Economic Ecosystems" is not my concept, although I like it a lot.

The regional part comes from Steve Bosserman and the ecosystem part from Soumaya Ben Lataifa: https://www.academia.edu/10252910/The_uneasy_transition_from_supply_chains_to_ecosystems_The_value-creation_value-capture_dilemma

We want it to go deep into ecosystems, using Howard Odum's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Systems_Language - but we are not there yet.

Currencies are yet another deep issue. I'm personally warming up to mutual credit networks (of which Mutual Aid Networks are an example, although they have other features). Like time banks and LETS. The currency is an hour. An hour == an hour.

[bhaugen]

Occurs to me that once the semi-final diagram is posted, everybody could put their own favorite selections of networks on their own teeshirt. Or we would put some variations out on the selected teeshirt service.

[gcassel]

Quick note: when I write "your concept" I never mean to imply that someone invented something. It's a bit of sloppy shorthand, referring to the idea of someone's personal current concept/ meaning for a term they use. Of course, I greatly appreciate the historical credit.

I'll try to read the links soon @bhaugen ; thanks!

[bhaugen]

P.S. everybody, the Impact Economy participants are aware of this project and discussed @Connoropolous's slide deck in one of their discussion threads. Or so I heard, I was not part of the summit or the thread.

[gcassel]

The customized teeshirt idea is great, as long as there's room to fit some (personal favorite networks) into the design. I think @elioqoshi that last image you posted here could look great as a poster or teeshirt.

[Connoropolous]

Thanks for the update about Impact Economy Bob, that's good to know! Is there a place you could point me to with a link to read? On Oct 15, 2015 11:29 AM, "Greg Cassel" notifications@github.com wrote:

The customized teeshirt idea is great, as long as there's room to fit some (personal favorite networks) into the design. I think @elioqoshi https://github.com/elioqoshi that last image you posted here could look great as a poster or teeshirt.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/valueflows/valueflows/issues/55#issuecomment-148481495 .

[bhaugen]

@Connoropolous http://www.impacteconomy.io/ https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_922q-PNUCRfkFCZHc3azlZTU44WHVhOExmZ1MwQnlJZ2pHLUYyWmJac2tKOFVweXJTbjQ

P.S. I don't have a link to that discussion about your slides, unfortunately. Heard about that from @TiberiusB

[gcassel]

p.s. I belatedly second Mikey's assessment earlier about the slide deck-- it's amazing @Connoropolous ; love what you're doing.

[Connoropolous]

Just need to fill in the slightly important slides about 'next steps'

... Input? On Oct 15, 2015 11:53 AM, "Greg Cassel" notifications@github.com wrote:

p.s. I belatedly second Mikey's assessment earlier about the slide deck-- it's amazing @Connoropolous https://github.com/Connoropolous ; love what you're doing.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/valueflows/valueflows/issues/55#issuecomment-148487145 .

[gcassel]

@Connoropolous I'm pretty frantically busy but I'll definitely try to look closer at 'next steps' when I can. Are you gathering feedback in any specific place other than this thread? (It's a shame that Google Slides don't allow selection-based commentary like Google Docs does.)

[bhaugen]

@Connoropolous - another great question! /me says in the style of somebody who is grasping feebly for an answer...

I'll take a stab at it, but hope other people will help. And the answer might depend on where you are coming from.

For example, for the active participants in the project, we are focused on getting the first cross-project connections up and running, using the agent-organization vocab. You might fit nicely into that. My personal want is for the stuff that @fosterlynn is putting out from NRP instances to be visualized in Holodex. And we got at least one nagging technical issue to solve. We have a meeting next Tuesday, which all are welcome to attend.

For the project's external relationships, Lynn and I have been trying to get representatives from some other networks to join up: for example, the Mutual Aid Network, where we have at least a verbal commitment to help with the intents vocab.

For the 'collaborative software consortium', your guess is better than mine.

The Impact Economy participants are figuring out what they do next, which may or may not intersect with ValueFlows.

For people who have not yet joined the project, please jump in and we'll figure it out.

See also #68