Skeletons are still no longer a playable race

[Megamaw]

I'm still a little surprised about this. Was there some sort of balance issue I didn't see?

I feel like it's about time we gave skeletons a trial period back on the station.

Possibly a whitelisted race, if there's concerns?

[NigglyWiggly]

Well I wrote the book right before Pomf's changes happened and made them set in stone as actual human skeletons, so my hopes that the idea of 'Aliens that look like skeletons' would catch on were put down pretty quickly. I don't really know what could be done about them, they're actually pretty well balanced as they are right now, the only problem I know of is that they get hungry. And they can never eat. Ever.

[Exxion]

Also when they try to eat or drink, it spams up the chat of everyone nearby In the Nightmare Bar of however long ago that was, it was impossible to hear anyone talk over all the skeletons drinking

[Megamaw]

Should I write up a different lore piece, if that'd help at all?

[ihadtoregisterforthis]

For the drinking give them a large cooldown, I'm almost sure that whatever they eat goes to the ground on the first bite.

Niggly's lore is fine enough. It's already more fitting than vox's, less bullshit than dionaea's and, unlike grays', it exists.

[Megamaw]

For those of you who wanted alternative lore, I have a first draft for my proposal. http://pastebin.com/G6fzW5fc

[NigglyWiggly]

Pretty good. The only thing we need is for Skeletons to not get fucking hungry anymore, and maybe get them some better sprites.

I'd actually be okay with allowing playable skeletons, but it's not really up to me

EDIT: For a quick comparison of why the sprites need some work; here's the skeleton sprites next to some unused plasmaman sprites.

[NigglyWiggly]

And here's a quick proof-of-concept style edit: I may have made the colors too dark, but I feel like having skeletons be almost entirely white is silly

[Megamaw]

That one on the right may be a little dark, yes. Having a proper nostril is a great touch, though.

perhaps we could have different colors for skeletons? that one gives a rather ancient, unearthed sort of feel

great job on it, though!

[Megamaw]

very little has been said in the course of, well, over a month

Do we have any word from @d3athrow yet?

[Intigracy]

Eww skeleshitters.

Skeletons should remain a special thing like catbeast and lizard and shit.

[Megamaw]

@Intigracy Please explain your reasoning for this. . If your reason is from a balancing standpoint, even before skeletons were nerfed to hell and back, they were outclassed mechanically by every other race. (which, if for some reason, I need to explain why, I will, but that'd be a long post.)

If it's from a 'they make no sense in lore!' standpoint, I've already outlined a proposal for lore, which, indeed, is more than Greys have.

If you have no reason other than 'that's the way it should be', then I don't have any counterpoint to a non-argument.

[Intigracy]

Can you name a Skeleton player that wasn't a shitter?

[Megamaw]

@Intigracy can you name a sec player that wasn't a shitter? consequently, should we as a result remove Security?

@NigglyWiggly seems to think pretty highly of the skeleton character that I played, at the very least.

If the problem is with the player, and not the feature, should we remove the feature, or punish the individual? The question, I think, does not pertain to the central point-- a feature should not be removed simply because 'some of the people who utilize it are dicks'.

[9600bauds]

Probe played a lot of sec and he's not a shitter

[SangriaMonkey]

I like how we're more inclined to remove content than deal with dickhead players.

[9600bauds]

Why would you like that?

[NigglyWiggly]

s a r c a s m

[ComicIronic]

Keep skellington gone, use plasmen instead.

[Megamaw]

@ComicIronic I'm interested to hear your reasoning. Please, elaborate on your thinking.

[ComicIronic]

Plasmen are scifi-justified skeletons. Regular skeletons are out of place on a space station.

[Megamaw]

@ComicIronic So, should we also remove Space Wizards and Vampires? Those are pretty, well, nontraditional for a space station. Is there any reason skeletons are different?

Again, I have a rudimentary draft for Skeleton lore, which is more than some of the other races have, if 'there's no lore, they're just there' is an argument that crosses your mind.

[ComicIronic]

Space Wizards and Vampires are both antags. Wizards in particular are meant to be deliberately ridiculous, which is why their spell invocations are mostly meme phrases and they're capable of magic in an otherwise scifi setting. Vampires are similarly cliche, regenerating in coffins and dying to sunlight.

[Megamaw]

In your own words, please explain how these two being antagonist roles changes the dynamic-- from my viewpoint, they're still both pretty big parts of the SS13 lore.

I could always supply non-antag examples, but I'd prefer to see how you respond, first.

[ComicIronic]

Because they occupy a different role in the round. Antags define the round through their actions by definition, because they decide the success and failure conditions. High-power antags can be themed to be ridiculous, because their interactions are significant.

[Megamaw]

I understand and respect your viewpoint.

However, we still, even in an extended round, have the following.

-A planet of clowns where an ore named Bananium is found, stored in banana-shaped ingots -Mimes that can create actual invisible walls -Killer Tomatoes, Walking Mushrooms -Burgers and spaghetti that turn people into MoMMIs or Cyborgs -Cutting off people's butts and turning them into robots -Vicious Space Carp

I can go further, if you'd like.

[Ephx1]

3 of those can be done in actual science fiction things though

Tomatoes/Mushroom genetic mutants Turning butts into robots is just silly however still completely logical, it's a thing on wheels that goes "butt" Space carp are also genetically altered aliens/normal carp

And arguably the burgers are also fine because they have Nanites in them, a normal science fiction trope

[Megamaw]

Genetically altered carp that breathe in space? Killer tomatoes with eyes and mouths that hop around. Surgically removing someone's butt.

I'd be hard pressed to consider a few of these things plausible. It's pretty clear that this is not a super-serious gritty realistic sci-fi setting, even in an Extended round.

[Ephx1]

Who says they breathe? Yes, killer tomatoes with eyes and mouths that hop around. Surgically removing someone's rear isn't even slightly a stretch.

[ComicIronic]

They don't have to be plausible, they have to be sci-fi. Monstrous space fish is totally consistent with sci-fi.

Skeletons overstep the boundaries of slight magic that the regular game has.

[NigglyWiggly]

Reminder that you can gain a genetic power that allows you to melt off your skin and muscles and shit and then live perfectly fine as a skeleton

[Intigracy]

So do that then

[Megamaw]

So what you're asking me to do is abandon my potentially important post to break into Genetics, fuck around for about 30 minutes, and then start doing my job AFTER everything is going to shit?

Huh. Interesting proposal.

[Ephx1]

Not only is that not what he said, but you're making a big fucking leap to say you absolutely need to break into somewhere when you can just ask someone working there to do it.

[ComicIronic]

Maybe you should just give up on being a skeleshitter.

[Megamaw]

@ComicIronic Does this add anything to the conversation, or are you just using this as an excuse to say 'skeleshitter' and giggle to yourself?

[Intigracy]

Skeletons were removed because they were a meme race originally added for Halloween that gets activated on Halloween and sometimes April Fools.

Plasmen were a compromise created to have the skeleshitters still playing as skeleshitters but with spess lore.

[Megamaw]

How do you define 'meme race'? If you are saying 'they're a joke, they cannot be taken seriously', I can redirect you to several serious skeletal characters in popular culture and literature.

If you're saying 'they have no lore, they don't make sense in this setting', need I remind you that necromancy is already an established art in canon thanks to the Space Wizard Federation, and I have thusly proposed a draft for supplemental lore for the race.

Which, well, is nice, because even Greys and Diona have no established lore that I can recall.

[ComicIronic]

Stop reviving this meme issue

[Megamaw]

Comic, what is your insistence on calling this a 'meme issue'? What would you define as a meme issue? Is any issue you don't want to push a 'meme issue'?

[Ephx1]

Meme Race

You do realize skeletons were added as a joke, right? You do realize that at the time of the joke, skeleton spooky spamming was in full force, right? I don't particularly care for them being a "meme", I hate them for separate reasons but that's probably what they're getting at.

Trying to say "there are other skeletons in fiction" is like if we made a race based off of Spurdos and said "there are other bears in fiction fug :DDDDDDDdddDd".

[ComicIronic]

Spurdo race isn't a bad idea.

[Ephx1]

Only if they get healed by burgers

[ComicIronic]

tapu tapu tapu

[Megamaw]

that's actually a terrible idea you know what WOULDN'T be a terrible idea?

add a player poll to the server for a week asking the general population what they think we should do-- readd them, or not

[Intigracy]

that's actually a terrible idea you know what WOULDN'T be a terrible idea?

just play as a plasmaman and be less of a baby.

[ComicIronic]

M E M E I S S U E

[Exxion]

I still don't see how a trial period could hurt.

[Megamaw]

The best way to get this community's feedback is something directly in-game. Which is why a trial period or player poll would be important. Because there are plenty of players that don't use Github.

[ghost]

I'd support a trial period with a player poll but I'd personally vote no. Skellingtons aren't fit for scifi

[TheFriggenSawbones]

space wizards that blow up peoples asses aren't really scifi either