Changelings absence of tells

[Probe1]

Another guy ate a ban because of how hard it is to prove someone is a changeling without letting him fucking kill you first.

Can we add a stinking blood test please? I hate this.

I hate it.

The other day @Konater walked around halluc stinging everyone in sight and no one could do a damn thing despite the obviousness of what was happening because the only way to know was OOC/metaknowledge. Today someone who is an otherwise decent guy snapped and force borged a guy to find out if he was a ling.

I do not like this mode. It results in salt and overhead.

[9600bauds]

It kinda sucks considering you don't have any of the other uplink items

[9600bauds]

Also: Mindswap and transforming REALLY should be transferring player notes

[Kurfursten]

Why? I think it makes total sense that if a wizard swaps with your mind he doesn't know your ATM info or blood type - that's in your mind.

[Probe1]

every time changeling comes up now a days people bitch because of the issues discussed here and we should get to it sooner or later.

[9600bauds]

http://www.strawpoll.me/10140319/r

[Shadowmech88]

It feels a little exploitative to oust a ling just by asking them for information that they are mechanically unable to access.

[Probe1]

And people are gonna exploit that if it works. Unless we say its against the rules. Then people are gonna get banned. And admins are gonna make the issue I made 1 month ago.

Changeling is still shit. The arguments against blood tests are weak. They say that antag checks are bad. But every. single. mode (except blob?) has an antag check. Yeah, they're not all "Beat and feed cindi kates and see if he heals". But they're all there.

Syndicate: Physical evidence (viscerator grenades to emags to whatever syndie only toy they may have). Vampire: Catches fucking fire in the presence of God Rev: Implants Cult: Holy water et al plus physical evidence Blob: ??? I have no idea and they always pop before anyone knows there's an antag Borer (defunct): scannable with the advanced scanner Heist: Physical Evidence Wizard: Physical Evidence/casts spells at people Changeling : Antag checks? IN MY VGSTATION?

[Kurfursten]

@AutismSpider Unless it's been fixed from when Kilkun buffed them, a full power vampire takes almost no damage from chugging huge amounts of holy water, and also immune to holy tiles.

[9600bauds]

Holy water is also a crapshoot due to #7786 making it so that the average vampire has less than 5% chance for the water to do anything at all

[nuklearcellphoneg]

Hello!!

What if:

1) You could do blood tests

2) You needed a fancy machine located in genetics to do the blood test which was immovable but not unbuildable/uncopyable.

3) The machine could process X number of blood tests at a time(1? 2? 3?)

4) It would take 15 minutes of time in order to process the blood(or 10 if upgraded?)

In this way, it is abusable but gives the ling time to do something tricky.

Let's be honest though, the best test is asking the dude what you said to him at the beginning of the shift, or etc.

[Shadowmech88]

That's a decent solution, but you'd need to give the machine a use other than ling tests. Having an entire machine that exists JUST for testing whether someone is a changeling seems silly.

[Kurfursten]

10 minute blood tests, or even 15

Sounds good to me, just take away changeling speech of course so that they can't call for friends while waiting TEN MINUTES for testing, and also make it invulnerable because genetics is right next to maintenance and we all know the first objective any changeling is going to have in a round before going loud - disassemble or bomb the blood tester.

[Probe1]

 >you might be a changeling!  >now wait here for as long as a major brig sentence! you're trying to keep us employed by generating even more ahelps.

[Probe1]

@AutismSpider If there is a full power vampire you don't need to check. He'll let you know.

[nuklearcellphoneg]

@Probe1

Changeling is an extremely deceptive roundtype. I can murder someone in plain view in the hallway, run away to the bar, sit next to a patron, absorb their identity, change into them, then change them into my previous self, and laugh in :G while they drag them off.

On second thought, let's not put in any tells.

[Probe1]

The options as they stand to the players are:

Make it not shit. Remove it.

Every time changeling comes up people bitch. It's extended + getting taken out of the round at a random point in time.

[Iamgoofball]

do the needful

just remove changeling entirely

[Iamgoofball]

or just give the changeling loud options like tg armblade

[9600bauds]

That's part of the solution, yeah. Until then, REMOVE LING remove ling or at least replace it with traitor+ling

[ComicIronic]

That will only work if we somehow get rid of monkeysuck.

The point is that, no matter how loud lings are able to go, few of them are ever going to do it. New abilities just aren't worth losing stealth for.

[Blithering]

Maybe make their disguise degrade over time, slowly taking clone damage until they change into a new identity?

[9600bauds]

REMOVE LING remove ling