Open Kanee-X opened 2 months ago
tschaerni
commented
2 months ago +1
To be honest, the colour blind icons are kind of confusing, especially as they are not consistent, or I just don't have any idea why there are sometimes different icons (see attached picture). To add insult to injury, some of the icons sometimes are slightly difficult to see (at least on smaller high resolution monitors), depending on the profile picture.
Kanee-X
commented
2 months ago I agree. Discord somewhat mitigates this by only showing the Mobile icon when a user is Online, but that doesn't really work as well within this context.
I dunno, I just personally don't believe that enough thought went into it, especially given that it's forced upon you, with no way to remove it.
regalialong
commented
2 months ago (annoyed sigh). Here is a CSS snippet to remove the shape of the icons.
.x-friend-item {
.avatar.active::after, .avatar.online::after, .avatar.joinme::after, .avatar.askme::after, .avatar.busy::after, .avatar.offline::after,
.avatar.online.mobile::after, .avatar.joinme.mobile::after, .avatar.askme.mobile::after, .avatar.busy.mobile::after
{
mask-image: none;
}
.avatar.online.mobile::after, .avatar.joinme.mobile::after, .avatar.askme.mobile::after, .avatar.busy.mobile::after {
border-radius: 50%;
height: 9px;
width: 9px;
right: 1px;
bottom: 1px;
}
}
i.x-user-status.active, i.x-user-status.online, i.x-user-status.joinme, i.x-user-status.askme, i.x-user-status.busy, i.x-user-status.offline {
mask-image: none;
}
This is untested and unsupported but essentially a revert of this and this commit. Put this in AppData/Roaming/VRCX/custom.css
As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
Kanee-X
commented
2 months ago As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
My issue isn't even with the addition of the feature; I'm all for accessibility, but it's more that this feature was forced upon everybody with no in-app way of disabling it. Accessibility isn't and should never be something that is forced upon everyone, otherwise you end up in a situation like this, where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users. I think this is a good opportunity to learn for the future, if you're going to implement an accessibility feature which has the slightest chance to impact the experience for other users, please, make it optional.
Myrkie
commented
2 months ago As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
My issue isn't even with the addition of the feature; I'm all for accessibility, but it's more that this feature was forced upon everybody with no in-app way of disabling it. Accessibility isn't and should never be something that is forced upon everyone, otherwise you end up in a situation like this, where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users. I think this is a good opportunity to learn for the future, if you're going to implement an accessibility feature which has the slightest chance to impact the experience for other users, please, make it optional.
the feature was apart of VRCX nightly build for quite some time, lot of people had time to complain (and they did) and this is what we arrived at from the feedback.
Kanee-X
commented
2 months ago As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
My issue isn't even with the addition of the feature; I'm all for accessibility, but it's more that this feature was forced upon everybody with no in-app way of disabling it. Accessibility isn't and should never be something that is forced upon everyone, otherwise you end up in a situation like this, where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users. I think this is a good opportunity to learn for the future, if you're going to implement an accessibility feature which has the slightest chance to impact the experience for other users, please, make it optional.
the feature was apart of VRCX nightly build for quite some time, lot of people had time to complain (and they did) and this is what we arrived at from the feedback.
Isn't it common sense, though, to make any accessibility changes be toggleable? Like, what if a screen reader was forced on for you, and couldn't be disabled, it would cause issues, right? And while they're not on the exact same severity, it's still the same basic concept. Some people don't want to use a feature either because they don't need it and prefer it without, or because it causes them more accessibility issues than it fixes.
Myrkie
commented
2 months ago As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
My issue isn't even with the addition of the feature; I'm all for accessibility, but it's more that this feature was forced upon everybody with no in-app way of disabling it. Accessibility isn't and should never be something that is forced upon everyone, otherwise you end up in a situation like this, where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users. I think this is a good opportunity to learn for the future, if you're going to implement an accessibility feature which has the slightest chance to impact the experience for other users, please, make it optional.
the feature was apart of VRCX nightly build for quite some time, lot of people had time to complain (and they did) and this is what we arrived at from the feedback.
Isn't it common sense, though, to make any accessibility changes be toggleable? Like, what if a screen reader was forced on for you, and couldn't be disabled, it would cause issues, right? And while they're not on the exact same severity, it's still the same basic concept. Some people don't want to use a feature either because they don't need it and prefer it without, or because it causes them more accessibility issues than it fixes.
discord doesn't have it, you need an entire mod loader + a plugin for it. but that's not the point, no one complained or asked for a toggle feature until after it went through nightlys daily users then to release.
Kanee-X
commented
2 months ago As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
My issue isn't even with the addition of the feature; I'm all for accessibility, but it's more that this feature was forced upon everybody with no in-app way of disabling it. Accessibility isn't and should never be something that is forced upon everyone, otherwise you end up in a situation like this, where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users. I think this is a good opportunity to learn for the future, if you're going to implement an accessibility feature which has the slightest chance to impact the experience for other users, please, make it optional.
the feature was apart of VRCX nightly build for quite some time, lot of people had time to complain (and they did) and this is what we arrived at from the feedback.
Isn't it common sense, though, to make any accessibility changes be toggleable? Like, what if a screen reader was forced on for you, and couldn't be disabled, it would cause issues, right? And while they're not on the exact same severity, it's still the same basic concept. Some people don't want to use a feature either because they don't need it and prefer it without, or because it causes them more accessibility issues than it fixes.
discord doesn't have it, you need an entire mod loader + a plugin for it. but that's not the point, no one complained or asked for a toggle feature until after it went through nightlys daily users then to release.
And I completely understand that it's a very niche thing that not many people would complain, or care about, and how it would have slipped under the radar or not been considered due to there not being enough, if any demand for it. And I'm also aware of Discord not having that feature, because I have to use such mod loaders myself for the same reason I'm requesting this toggle to be added to VRCX the first place.
I enjoy using VRCX, as it has upgraded my overall VRChat experience, which is why I am frustrated about this feature being forced, because it personally impacted my user experience.
Myrkie
commented
2 months ago As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
My issue isn't even with the addition of the feature; I'm all for accessibility, but it's more that this feature was forced upon everybody with no in-app way of disabling it. Accessibility isn't and should never be something that is forced upon everyone, otherwise you end up in a situation like this, where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users. I think this is a good opportunity to learn for the future, if you're going to implement an accessibility feature which has the slightest chance to impact the experience for other users, please, make it optional.
the feature was apart of VRCX nightly build for quite some time, lot of people had time to complain (and they did) and this is what we arrived at from the feedback.
Isn't it common sense, though, to make any accessibility changes be toggleable? Like, what if a screen reader was forced on for you, and couldn't be disabled, it would cause issues, right? And while they're not on the exact same severity, it's still the same basic concept. Some people don't want to use a feature either because they don't need it and prefer it without, or because it causes them more accessibility issues than it fixes.
discord doesn't have it, you need an entire mod loader + a plugin for it. but that's not the point, no one complained or asked for a toggle feature until after it went through nightlys daily users then to release.
And I completely understand that it's a very niche thing that not many people would complain, or care about, and how it would have slipped under the radar or not been considered due to there not being enough, if any demand for it. And I'm also aware of Discord not having that feature, because I have to use such mod loaders myself for the same reason I'm requesting this toggle to be added to VRCX the first place.
I enjoy using VRCX, as it has upgraded my overall VRChat experience, which is why I am frustrated about this feature being forced, because it personally impacted my user experience.
you could use the response from regalia to achieve this exact functionality (minus a toggle button) https://github.com/vrcx-team/VRCX/issues/822#issuecomment-2185013819
Kanee-X
commented
2 months ago As a general reminder, the VRCX team is made up of developers, not UI/UX designers. If you have suggestions on how the icons could be improved, it'd be appreciated because from discussions in the Discord, this is a pretty difficult problem to solve. You have to create meaningful statuses that still are legible for both colorblind people and through VR headsets where you aren't afforded a lot of pixels.
My issue isn't even with the addition of the feature; I'm all for accessibility, but it's more that this feature was forced upon everybody with no in-app way of disabling it. Accessibility isn't and should never be something that is forced upon everyone, otherwise you end up in a situation like this, where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users. I think this is a good opportunity to learn for the future, if you're going to implement an accessibility feature which has the slightest chance to impact the experience for other users, please, make it optional.
the feature was apart of VRCX nightly build for quite some time, lot of people had time to complain (and they did) and this is what we arrived at from the feedback.
Isn't it common sense, though, to make any accessibility changes be toggleable? Like, what if a screen reader was forced on for you, and couldn't be disabled, it would cause issues, right? And while they're not on the exact same severity, it's still the same basic concept. Some people don't want to use a feature either because they don't need it and prefer it without, or because it causes them more accessibility issues than it fixes.
discord doesn't have it, you need an entire mod loader + a plugin for it. but that's not the point, no one complained or asked for a toggle feature until after it went through nightlys daily users then to release.
And I completely understand that it's a very niche thing that not many people would complain, or care about, and how it would have slipped under the radar or not been considered due to there not being enough, if any demand for it. And I'm also aware of Discord not having that feature, because I have to use such mod loaders myself for the same reason I'm requesting this toggle to be added to VRCX the first place. I enjoy using VRCX, as it has upgraded my overall VRChat experience, which is why I am frustrated about this feature being forced, because it personally impacted my user experience.
you could use the response from regalia to achieve this exact functionality (minus a toggle button) #822 (comment)
That is probably what I will end up doing in the meantime, but it is rather inconvenient as opposed to having a direct option for it.
regalialong
commented
2 months ago where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users.
Out of curiosity, you repeatedly mention that the icons are a negative, do you just prefer the old icons or do you dislike something in specific about the new ones?
I'm essentially fishing you for actionable feedback but the icons are still color-coded, I believe the most "radical" change would be the mobile icon, which gets intuitive after a little.
Similarly to Discord, as per this commit, it's only shown when the user is 'active' in some way or another.
tschaerni
commented
2 months ago I'm essentially fishing you for actionable feedback but the icons are still color-coded, I believe the most "radical" change would be the mobile icon, which gets intuitive after a little.
What is the mobile icon for anyway? I added the custom.css as you said, but that mobile icon is still there, is it just to show that they are android/quest users?
regalialong
commented
2 months ago Check the update on that if you haven't applied it, I noticed only later that the mobile icon was still left over.
It's for everything that isn't PC(VR):
if (user.last_platform && user.last_platform !== 'standalonewindows') {
style.mobile = true;I see. Didn't notice that you changed your post.
It now looks like it should.
Kanee-X
commented
1 month ago where the forced change you made to better the experience for one subset of users, will negatively affect another subset of users.
Out of curiosity, you repeatedly mention that the icons are a negative, do you just prefer the old icons or do you dislike something in specific about the new ones?
I'm essentially fishing you for actionable feedback but the icons are still color-coded, I believe the most "radical" change would be the mobile icon, which gets intuitive after a little.
Similarly to Discord, as per this commit, it's only shown when the user is 'active' in some way or another.
First, my apologies for a lack of response on my part, I was busy with some stuff in real life, but I can answer now
I am experiencing issues with the new colorblind status indicators in VRCX, due to my vision and cognitive challenges I find it difficult to quickly read and process the new, more complex icons. As I mentioned before, I faced a similar problem with Discord when they introduced similar changes five years ago. I still have to use an external plugin to revert the icons there because it’s nearly impossible for me to quickly determine someone's status.
This issue is particularly problematic in VRCX because the status icons have always been quite small, which exacerbates the difficulty.
I have no issue with them being a thing, as I know there are people out there who will much prefer them, for example, the colourblind people they were made for, but I don't think it's good practice in any scenario to just force an accessibility option upon everyone. I would just like to ask for a simple toggle that enables or disables them.
AND I'M NOT SAYING EVERYONE HAS TO FEEL THE SAME WAY; but just because "most people are okay" is a bad excuse to sacrifice the UX for anyone (even if just a minority).
Avenred
commented
1 month ago Is there still no way to turn these off without using custom CSS? I'm not colorblind, and I'm willing to bet ~90% of the people using VRCX aren't either considering only ~8% of males are colorblind. Plus, the icons are just ugly. Why is the "Join Me" status a triangle embedded in a circle instead of being a filled in square or something?
Myrkie
commented
1 month ago Is there still no way to turn these off without using custom CSS? I'm not colorblind, and I'm willing to bet ~90% of the people using VRCX aren't either considering only ~8% of males are colorblind. Plus, the icons are just ugly. Why is the "Join Me" status a triangle embedded in a circle instead of being a filled in square or something?
modified css is the only way, its a add and forget addition.
Kanee-X
commented
1 month ago Is there still no way to turn these off without using custom CSS? I'm not colorblind, and I'm willing to bet ~90% of the people using VRCX aren't either considering only ~8% of males are colorblind. Plus, the icons are just ugly. Why is the "Join Me" status a triangle embedded in a circle instead of being a filled in square or something?
modified css is the only way, its a add and forget addition.
But again, why must it be the 'only way'? There's plenty of other accessibility features that can be disabled, why is this specific feature different?
Myrkie
commented
1 month ago But again, why must it be the 'only way'? There's plenty of other accessibility features that can be disabled, why is this specific feature different?
mostly through VRCX being full of technical debt and the feature not being high priority enough, if someone wants to pull request it then it would be added already.
Explain in detail what your suggested feature would be used for. The suggested feature would allow users to disable the colourblind friendly status indicators in VRCX. Currently, these indicators use shapes on top of colours to assist colourblind users in distinguishing between different statuses. However, for users who do not find these icons helpful or prefer solid colours, this feature would provide an option to revert to solid colour indicators instead.
Describe how it would look if it requires a UI. If implemented, the feature would likely be integrated into the Appearance settings of VRCX. Within these settings, there could be a toggle switch labeled "Disable Colourblind Friendly Status Indicators." When toggled on, VRCX would display solid colours for status indicators instead of the current colour plus icon combination.
Explain why people would want to use it. People would want to use this feature primarily for improved readability and personal preference. Some users, including myself, find it easier to differentiate between statuses using solid colours rather than colours with added icons. This preference would act similar to the third-party Vencord plugin available in Discord called "ColourSighted", where users can remove the colourblind friendly status indicators.
Moreover, providing this option enhances accessibility for users with different types and degrees of colour vision deficiencies. It acknowledges that while colourblind friendly indicators are helpful for many, they may not suit everyone's visual preferences or needs. By including this feature, VRCX would cater to a wider range of users, ensuring a more inclusive and customizable user experience.