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vteague / contactTracing

Examination of security and privacy implications of automated contact tracing
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Analysis needs comparables #4

Open Richisfree opened 4 years ago

Richisfree commented 4 years ago

The technical depth of the analysis is really great, thank you. I do however think that failing to establish the risks in relative terms (i.e. in the context of the normal use of a mobile device) is a serious flaw in the analysis. This is particularly important now because this article is being referenced by major news outlets. An uneducated person could look at this and make the decision to refrain from using the app because of the "risks" while happily continuing to use AirBnB, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Google, Google maps etc which all gather more information than COVIDSafe and (if Snowden is to be believed) probably have a backdoor for the CIA to analyze that data. Further, risks must also be considered against the opportunities. By publishing this without context or relative risks you're actually putting society at risk, people's loved ones at risk of actually contracting and dying or suffering long term organ damage due to COVID-19.

Richisfree commented 4 years ago

Ok, just realised what you're doing here. You're concluding that the COVIDSafe app has serious privacy concerns and at the same time asking people to give you feedback via Twitter. Yes Twitter: that organisation that has admitting storing it's user's passwords in plain text (source: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/3/17316684/twitter-password-bug-security-flaw-exposed-change-now). Wow. I'd go so far as to say that pointing people to Twitter whilst recommending they re-considering downloading COVIDSafe is reckless security advice.

stuntguy3000 commented 4 years ago

I tend to agree, this is dumb advice.

nyuzu-nyuser commented 4 years ago

I still think lumping in all privacy concerns together is dumb.

I know and understand the risks when I use GitHub, a Microsoft owned service.

Whereas when an app is broadcasting metadata about me all over the place (I have a very obscure device model, so essentially having a UniqueID is pointless) is a big step with risks I do not know and understand.

Also twitter does work without javascript and via apps that isolate it's javascript if you did happen to want to reduce the majority of adversary twitter can have.

Richisfree commented 4 years ago

@nyuzu-nyuser, starting a post by calling somebody else dumb and then admitting you're talking about risks you "do not know and understand" is pretty funny. To clarify, I'm not saying you should lump everything together, I'm saying the authors should have put the risks in perspective by providing comparables. I would like to know the author's opinion on the security risks associated with using twitter, facebook, google, other mobiles apps, the web etc in comparison to the contact tracing app. Every time you use your obscure device to browse a web page, use a mapping services etc you're likely giving that server your obscure device information. Perhaps I'm missing something, what is the risk associated with an app "broadcasting" one piece of unencrypted metadata (about your device, not about you) 20m via bluetooth. Even if somebody procures that information and then knows your device was within 20m of them on a particular day, how useful is that? The use of this app is unlikely to move the needle on your privacy unless:

Richisfree commented 4 years ago

"Also twitter does work without javascript and via apps that isolate it's javascript if you did happen to want to reduce the majority of adversary twitter can have." I don't think this has anything to do with the risk associated with them storing their users passwords in plain text. Any employee who had access to those log files then has access to the passwords of millions of twitter users, if any of those users happen to use the same (or similar) password across services they are hack their other web accounts. It sounds like they've plugged this particular issue but it amazes me it ever cropped up. Storing passwords unencrypted is just a massive, massive fail. It's very surprising to me that a software company could somehow let that happen.

nyuzu-nyuser commented 4 years ago

That was a broad statement, I didn't say anyone's post was dumb, I said the idea, of comparing two completely distinct things as one thing, is dumb. Maybe it wasn't sensitive of me, but I don't hold anything against people who choose to hold dumb views.

In regards to twitter security, yes it's utterly useless, but you can always make an account with a unique password, give feedback and never use the account again. There is no obligation to put your privacy or security at risk to use twitter in the manner suggested. It may make it easier, but no one is forcing you.