w3c / clreq

Requirements for Chinese Text Layout
https://www.w3.org/International/clreq/
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需要增加关于行间标点排版的内容 #463

Closed ryukeikun closed 1 year ago

ryukeikun commented 2 years ago

目前文档只阐述了行内标点的问题,但对于着重号、专名号等行间标点的需求,阐述甚少,需要补充

ryukeikun commented 2 years ago

拟了草稿供大家讨论 @realfish @xfq


3.1.8 行间标点的处理

  1. 概述 现代中文排版的标点符号,大部分都随文字穿插在行内,但专名号(下划线)、书名号(仅指甲式的波浪线)、着重号要摆放在行与行之间,这些标点通称为「行间标点」。其中专名号(下划线)、书名号(仅指甲式的波浪线)合称为「行间线」。
传统中文古籍中的「句读」也都是「行间标点」。传统中文古籍排版虽然已经超出了本文档的范围,但是行间标点的基本原则可参照本节内容。 直排时,行间线标注于文字左侧,着重号标注于文字右侧。像这样,文字两侧均加排行间标点的排版方式叫「双面装」。横排时,行间线、着重号均标注于文字下方。像这样,文字单侧加排行间标点的排版方式叫「单面装」。原则上,横排书不使用双面装。 2. 通则 通常情况下,一行内文字使用同样的字号,此时,单、双面装的一般通则如下: 1. 无论单面装、双面装,也无论横排、直排,原则上行距应保持一致。这一点与 2.3.5.4 阐述内容一致。在最初设计基本版式时就必须提前考虑好行间标点的情况,并设置好足够大的行距。应尽量避免为了行间标点而强行局部撑大单行行距的做法。 为保证行间标点的摆放,单面装的行距不应小于当前字号的一半、双面装的的行距不应小于当前字号的 5/8 (=1/2+1/8) 2. 着重号应与所指示的字符居中对齐;行间线应与所标注内容的长短、数量均要保持一致,即,有几个标注项目就用几条线段,不能任意从中断开,也不能用多条线段拼接组合。比如,相邻的两个专名,即使所标注的正文汉字是密排,两个专名要用两条专名线,中间的断开要能够辨认;此时不能用一条专名线连起来标注,否则连续的两个专名会被误认为是一个专名。 3. 行间标点应尽量紧贴所标注汉字一侧。 行间线、着重号的大小或粗度取决于字体和排版引擎的设计,虽然没有绝对限制,但显然尺寸上应与所标汉字字号、字距相匹配。 3. 在疏排或行内调整需要拉开字距的情况 1. 行内调整时应避开被行间线标注的字而优先去拉开其他地方的字距 1. 如果被标注字的字距被拉开,行间线应相应延长且不能断开 2. 根据上述通则 1. 拉开字距后,着重号依旧应与字符居中对齐而不能错位。 4. 横排单面装特殊情况 原则上,横排时不使用双面装。横排时,专名号(下划线)或书名号(仅指甲式的波浪线)如果遇到和着重号同时出现时,应以“先线后点”原则,让行间线紧贴汉字,再在其下加着重号。
ryukeikun commented 2 years ago

@huijing I have revised the Chinese text, now we can try to translate them into English/

huijing commented 2 years ago

所以 https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/463#issuecomment-1129772504 是 final 版本?

huijing commented 2 years ago

3.1.8 Handling interlinear punctuation 3.1.8 行间标点的处理

  1. Overview Most punctuation marks in modern Chinese typesetting are interspersed between the text in a line, but the Proper Noun Mark (underline), the Book Title Mark (only for the type A wavy low line) and the Emphasis Dot need to be positioned between lines. These punctuation marks are known as “interlinear punctuation”. Of which, the Proper Noun Mark and the Book Title mark are known as interlinear line marks.
  2. 概述 现代中文排版的标点符号,大部分都随文字穿插在行内,但专名号(下划线)、书名号(仅指甲式的波浪线)、着重号要摆放在行与行之间,这些标点通称为「行间标点」。其中专名号(下划线)、书名号(仅指甲式的波浪线)合称为「行间线」。

Sentence spacing for ancient Chinese texts were all interlinear punctuation. Although the typesetting of ancient Chinese texts is beyond the scope of this document, the guidance provided in this section can still serve as a reference for the basic principles of interlinear punctuation. 传统中文古籍中的「句读」也都是「行间标点」。传统中文古籍排版虽然已经超出了本文档的范围,但是行间标点的基本原则可参照本节内容。

In vertical typesetting, the Interlines are positioned to the left of the text, while the Emphasis Dot is positioned to the right of the text. The situation where both these punctuation are applied to a run of text is known as double-sided setting. In horizontal typesetting, both the Interlines and Emphasis Dot are positioned to the bottom of the text. This situation is known as a single-side setting. In principle, text typeset horizontally will not use double-sided setting. 直排时,行间线标注于文字左侧,着重号标注于文字右侧。像这样,文字两侧均加排行间标点的排版方式叫「双面装」。横排时,行间线、着重号均标注于文字下方。像这样,文字单侧加排行间标点的排版方式叫「单面装」。原则上,横排书不使用双面装。

  1. General guidance Under normal circumstances, a line of text will use the same font size. For these instances, single-sided and double-sided setting will generally behave as follows:
  2. 通则 通常情况下,一行内文字使用同样的字号,此时,单、双面装的一般通则如下:

Regardless of single-sided or double-sided setting, as well as for horizontal or vertical typesetting, the line gap shall always be consistent. This is in accordance to what was stated in section 2.3.5.4. During the initial typesetting design, the positioning of the punctuation shall be taken into account such that sufficient space is allocated for the line gap. Forcing extra spacing in a single line containing interlinear punctuation shall be avoided as much as possible. 无论单面装、双面装,也无论横排、直排,原则上行距应保持一致。这一点与 2.3.5.4 阐述内容一致。在最初设计基本版式时就必须提前考虑好行间标点的情况,并设置好足够大的行距。应尽量避免为了行间标点而强行局部撑大单行行距的做法。

To ensure appropriate positioning of interlinear punctuation, the line gap for single-sided setting shall not be smaller than half of the font-size, while the line gap for double-sided setting shall not be smaller than 5/8 (=1/2+1/8) of the font size 为保证行间标点的摆放,单面装的行距不应小于当前字号的一半、双面装的的行距不应小于当前字号的 5/8 (=1/2+1/8)

Emphasis Dots shall be center-aligned with its corresponding character; interlinear lines shall be correspond with the length and quantity of content they are marking out. As such, if there are multiple instances which need to be marked out with interlines, multiple interlines need to be used. Interlinear lines cannot be arbitrarily broken up. And a single interlinear line cannot be composed out of multiple fragments. For example, if there are two adjacent Proper Nouns, even if the text being marked out is set solid, both Proper Nouns must be clearly marked with two Proper Noun Marks that are distinguishable from one another. In this instance, a single Proper Noun Mark must not be used, because this would cause the two Proper Nouns to be misunderstood as a single Proper Noun. 着重号应与所指示的字符居中对齐;行间线应与所标注内容的长短、数量均要保持一致,即,有几个标注项目就用几条线段,不能任意从中断开,也不能用多条线段拼接组合。比如,相邻的两个专名,即使所标注的正文汉字是密排,两个专名要用两条专名线,中间的断开要能够辨认;此时不能用一条专名线连起来标注,否则连续的两个专名会被误认为是一个专名。

Interlinear punctuation shall be as close to the marked text as possible. The thickness and size of the interlinear lines and emphasis dots is determined by the font design and typesetting rendering engine, but even though there is no absolute limitation, the sizing of these punctuation marks shall be harmonious with the font size and letter-spacing of the marked text. 行间标点应尽量紧贴所标注汉字一侧。 行间线、着重号的大小或粗度取决于字体和排版引擎的设计,虽然没有绝对限制,但显然尺寸上应与所标汉字字号、字距相匹配。

  1. For loose setting or situations when letter-spacing needs to be increased

    1. If the letter-spacing of the marked text needs to be increased, the length of the interlinear line shall be increased to match without being broken
    2. In accordance to what was explained in the first general guidance, even after the letter-spacing is increased, Emphasis Dots shall continue to be center-aligned with the text they are marking
  2. 在疏排或行内调整需要拉开字距的情况

    1. 如果被标注字的字距被拉开,行间线应相应延长且不能断开
    2. 根据上述通则 1. 拉开字距后,着重号依旧应与字符居中对齐而不能错位。
  3. Special situation for single-side setting By right, double-sided setting shall not occur in horizontal writing mode. In cases where both a Proper Noun Mark or Book Title Mark is used together with Emphasis Dots, the guiding principle is "line first, followed by dot", such that the underline or wavy line is closer to the text, while the dot comes below.

  4. 横排单面装特殊情况 原则上,横排时不使用双面装。横排时,专名号(下划线)或书名号(仅指甲式的波浪线)如果遇到和着重号同时出现时,应以“先线后点”原则,让行间线紧贴汉字,再在其下加着重号。

ryukeikun commented 2 years ago

「双面装」「单面装」的「装」,我觉得其实用 setting 就好? 倒是「行间线」有点难,总不能叫 Interline lines 吧? Interline line-mark?

Although the typesetting of ancient Chinese texts is beyond the scope of this document, it can still serve as a reference for the basic principles of interlinear punctuation.

这句英文与中文意思不太对?

Interlines must not be arbitrarily broken up, a single interline cannot be composed out of multiple fragments either.

这个 either 要改 neither?

另外从行文上,建议将表示要求的「应」翻译成 shall 而非 must (与所有 ISO 标准文档的措辞一致、内外有别,外部[国家法律法规]要求用 must,文档自己的需求用 shall)即

huijing commented 2 years ago

写成 “Although the typesetting of ancient Chinese texts is beyond the scope of this document, the guidance provided in this section can still serve as a reference for the basic principles of interlinear punctuation.” 会好一点吗?

Interlines must not be arbitrarily broken up, a single interline cannot be composed out of multiple fragments either. 这个 either 要改 neither?

这个我直接把它分成两个句子。

“应”的句子都改成“should”了。

至于 interline mark,就看看傍晚大家的看法?

xfq commented 2 years ago

“应”的句子都改成“should”了。

Eric的意思应该是翻译为shall?RFC 2119里shall与must同义,与should不同。

huijing commented 2 years ago

“应”的句子都改成“should”了。

Eric的意思应该是翻译为shall?RFC 2119里shall与must同义,与should不同。

哦,明白了。都改成 shall 了。