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Explore if there are better meeting times for the Web Editing WG #359

Closed BoCupp-Microsoft closed 1 month ago

BoCupp-Microsoft commented 2 years ago

The Web Editing WG currently meets at 9am Pacific Time on the second Friday each month. I'd like to make it easier for more geographically distributed people to attend our calls. We have also had a number of special meetings scheduled recently, which I think is an indicator that maybe we should meet with greater frequency.

Here's a proposal:

Tagging some regular attendees below to see if there's interest. Also @masayuki-nakano, @annevk, @smaug----, would you be willing to attend if the meetings were in a better timeslot for you? Presumably we could get 2 of every 3 meetings inside your normal working hours.

@johanneswilm @snianu @alexkeng @travisleithead @whsieh @comandeer @megangardner

Anyone interested in the proposal please share your time zones. I'll start: PDT (UTC - 7)

johanneswilm commented 2 years ago

Hey, the current meetings were set up with the US West Coast and Europe in mind given that most JS editor projects at the time were Europe-based and the browsers US West based. I am Europe-based and I would be open to also attend meetings at 3 am to better suit participants from Asia and US/West. But having a rotating schedule would then also require everyone else to attend meetings in the middle of the night every now and then - else well have to have the same meeting 3 or more times before we can find consensus. Is that something Microsoft's employees would be willing to do @BoCupp-Microsoft ? If that is not possible, and you only attend 2 of every 3 meetings so that we have to take up those points again that Europe/Asia discussed when the US connects, I don't think this would work.

I would be open to meet twice a month, but then those should be meetings filled with really new content and not just the same people stating the same positions over and over again in multiple meetings. I think it may make sense to first try to get better at that and not take up the same items on the agenda again unless there have been some new development.

My time zone is CET (UTC +1).

Comandeer commented 2 years ago

My time zone is also CET (UTC+1).

BoCupp-Microsoft commented 2 years ago

But having a rotating schedule would then also require everyone else to attend meetings in the middle of the night every now and then - else we'll have to have the same meeting 3 or more times before we can find consensus. Is that something Microsoft's employees would be willing to do @BoCupp-Microsoft ?

Yes, I'm willing to attend outside normal working hours to avoid the need to repeatedly cover the same content. My thought is that folks in China or Japan would currently always need to attend outside normal working hours or else not attend at all. If we adopt a rotation like I suggested then 2 out of every 3 meetings should be inside each member's normal working hours and every third meeting would require attendance outside normal working hours.

This only matters though if we get new attendees. Currently we just have Europe and US regular attendees, right? Tagging potential attendees from Japan and China to gauge their interest in this proposal.

@masayuki-nakano @siusin

siusin commented 2 years ago

Thanks @BoCupp-Microsoft @johanneswilm !

It'd be easier for me in China if we can move it a bit earlier like 8 am Pacific Time, but I guess it's still difficult for people in the JST time zone.

@masayuki-nakano wdyt?

snianu commented 2 years ago

Tagging few Mozilla folks as well. @annevk @smaug----

annevk commented 2 years ago

My timezone is CET. I cannot make midnight meetings, FWIW.

masayuki-nakano commented 2 years ago

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize this. My timezone is JST (UTC+9), and I need to leave by 10PM due to legal reason. Additionally, I'm not available at least by end of this year because of some private matter.

smaug---- commented 2 years ago

My timezone is EET, but I tend to work closer to EST times.

BoCupp-Microsoft commented 2 years ago

Providing some more detail on candidate meeting times for us to consider in today's call. The key changes I'm thinking we should make:

Some candidates for US / Europe optimized times would be these:

Seattle New York Central European Tokoyo Beijing
Thu 6:00 am Thu 9:00 am Thu 3:00 pm Thu 11:00 pm Thu 10:00 pm
Thu 7:00 am Thu 10:00 am Thu 4:00 pm Fri 12:00 midnight Thu 11:00 pm
Thu 8:00 am Thu 11:00 am Thu 5:00 pm Fri 1:00 am Fri 12:00 midnight

Some candidates for Europe / Japan optimized times would be these:

Seattle New York Central European Tokoyo Beijing
Thu 9:00 pm Fri 12:00 midnight Fri 6:00 am Fri 2:00 pm Fri 1:00 pm
Thu 10:00 pm Fri 1:00 am Fri 7:00 am Fri 3:00 pm Fri 2:00 pm
Thu 11:00 pm Fri 2:00 am Fri 8:00 am Fri 4:00 pm Fri 3:00 pm
Fri 12:00 midnight Fri 3:00 am Fri 9:00 am Fri 5:00 pm Fri 4:00 pm

Some candidates for US / Japan optimized times would be these:

Seattle New York Central European Tokoyo Beijing
Thu 1:00 pm Thu 4:00 pm Thu 10:00 pm Fri 6:00 am Fri 5:00 am
Thu 2:00 pm Thu 5:00 pm Thu 11:00 pm Fri 7:00 am Fri 6:00 am
Thu 3:00 pm Thu 6:00 pm Fri 12:00 midnight Fri 8:00 am Fri 7:00 am

I pulled all those time tables from this site if you want to have a look and put forth others for consideration.

I also created a Doodle with all the candidate meeting times I listed above (it should display for you in your current timezone). Ignore the date specified in the Doodle; I'm interested in knowing all the meeting times you'd be willing to attend. Please use this Doodle link, fill in your name, and check all the boxes for every meeting time that you'd be willing to attend.

BoCupp-Microsoft commented 2 years ago

One other thought for today's meeting. I know we have regular Pacific Time attendees and CET time attendees right now. At a minimum I'm thinking we should move the meeting to Thursdays and have them start a little earlier (7am or 8am Pacific). Let's see if we can at least resolve on that in the meeting today and we can more carefully consider rotating meeting times using poll data from the Doodle link above.

annevk commented 2 years ago

@BoCupp-Microsoft I think something went wrong with the Doodle. While it claims to show the local times, it appears to be showing the Seattle times for me. Assuming the table above is correct.

johanneswilm commented 2 years ago

The doodle seems to work fine for me. It's displaying Oslo time, which is the same as mine.

annevk commented 2 years ago

It says it's displaying in Zürich time for me, but the times displayed don't match those of the table in the prior comment.

johanneswilm commented 2 years ago

That is true. The table above seems unrelated to the times mentioned in the doodle.

css-meeting-bot commented 2 years ago

The Web Editing Working Group just discussed New meeting time.

The full IRC log of that discussion <Travis> Topic: New meeting time
<Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/359
<Travis> BoCupp: At a minimum, I would like to meet a little earlier PST for those in central europe time.
<Travis> .. if we started at 7 pst, this is a little better for UTC
<Travis> .. The midnight time (ASIA) eats into the weekend. We should move to Thursday.
<Travis> Megan: 7 is quite early... how about 8?
<Travis> .. very "pro" Thursday!
<tilgovi> 7am PT is quite early, but I can manage it. 8 is great.
<Travis> johanneswilm: So, 2nd Thursday of the month (that shall be the new rule)?
<Travis> BoCupp: Feb 10th?
<Travis> johanneswilm: 5pm Central Europe
<Travis> .. 8am Pacific (fix it to that for DST changes)
<Travis> .. can we also move to Jitsi?
<Travis> .. Right now I have to admit folks...
<Travis> BoCupp: Not sure.
<Travis> .. Also I wanted to include masyuki
<Travis> .. but don't want to have everyone adopt a japan-optimized time if he won't be attending.
<Travis> .. wondering if folks are willing to attend in the "off times" (in a rotating schedule)
<Travis> .. Will poll to gauge interest
<Travis> .. otherwise will stick to Thursdays and the -1 hour
<Travis> Topic aside: Anne suggests Jan 27 (two weeks)
<Travis> BoCupp: Willing to start at 7...
<Travis> whsieh: 7 is a bit early, how about a compromise 7:30 AM?
<Travis> Travis: I note Megan, snianu +1 that 7:30 time.
<Travis> Anne: I can also handle Zoom meetings.
<Travis> BoCupp: For default we'll go with same tech for meeting/IRS
<Travis> ha ha... IRC, not IRS
<Travis> snianu: Shall we have a separate meeting for EditContext?
<Travis> BoCupp: I think we could just discuss in the main meeting.
travisleithead commented 2 years ago

Follow-up action items:

css-meeting-bot commented 2 years ago

The Web Editing Working Group just discussed Better times for the meeting?.

The full IRC log of that discussion <Travis> Topic: Better times for the meeting?
<Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/359
<Travis> BoCupp: I think we did move to the current time... don't think we're planning on moving to another time..?
<Travis> .. I'm not sure there was interest in having alternating times?
<Travis> johanneswilm: masayuki noted he wasn't able to attend meetings through 2021... but perhaps that's changed?
<Travis> action: check back with Masayuki and see what his attendance may be like?
annevk commented 2 years ago

Oh, I thought the meeting was still tomorrow as per https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/webediting/calendar...

snianu commented 2 years ago

@annevk we are on google meet right now if you want to join? We'd like to discuss the pickling type proposal and clipboard write permissions.

annevk commented 2 years ago

Sorry, I had a conflicting meeting. I can make time next week if you think that would be useful. Will https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/webediting/calendar be updated to be accurate from now on?

johanneswilm commented 2 years ago

@annevk I have updated the calendar now.

johanneswilm commented 2 years ago

And yes, we will keep that calendar up-to-date from now on.

css-meeting-bot commented 2 years ago

The Web Editing Working Group just discussed meeting times.

The full IRC log of that discussion <Travis> Topic: meeting times
<Travis> github: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/359
<Travis> johanneswilm: Masayuki could meet at other times...
<Travis> .. we would like to have more inclusion. We currently have N. America, Europe. Would like to include folks in Asia.
<Travis> .. last time we asked Masyuki if he wanted to attend--couldn't do it in 2021, want to check again.
<Travis> Alex: I can contact Masayuki.
<Travis> johanneswilm: great!
BoCupp-Microsoft commented 2 years ago

I followed up with @alexkeng and he didn't hear back yet from @masayuki-nakano. I think we can close this issue for now and continue just with our regular 2nd Thursday of the month, 8am Pacific timeslots. We can revisit if others from a different time zone express interest in regularly attending.