8 May 2024
[Source](https://www.w3.org/2024/05/08-matf-minutes.html#t01)
## 1.4.10 Reflow
JJ: we discussed last week we would convert px, but there's still a question around how to set the viewport of an app to specific dimensions
JJ: Joe_Humbert asked does mobile support up to 400%? could you elaborate?
Joe_Humbert: the original iPhone technically doesn't meet the reqs, it exceeds the dimensions that this specifies
Joe_Humbert: so I'm not sure if this could be tested
Joe_Humbert: if we're testing to the size WCAG requires I don't think it'd be possible
JJ: Mick says not sure if this is supported on native
JJ: Carolina says don't think this applies to native
[JJ reviews linked German testing standard]
this feels like something taken from the Web guidelines. Should the guidelines also include changing the layout of the application if the viewport reduces in size so much that the layout cannot be supported by the viewport
JJ: any more thoughts on 1.4.10?
Carolina: do we need to test on iPhone 13 mini?
JJ: would say it's interpretation…
Double_a: this is not addressing the way mobile apps are structured
Double_a: we're running an experiment where the grid layout is turned into a list… when font is manipulated to the maximum
Double_a: should we do something like that, where if the grid layout cannot be supported and becomes a list layout, should this be part of 'nice to have' guidance?
JJ: I've done this myself in an app…that has two columns with regular font size but with larger font size it becomes a list
Joe_Humbert: requiring specific devices is going to be extremely difficult… even saying 'test on smallest device you have'… most people I worked with who are testing don't have multiple devices to test on
I don't think we should get specific to phone models - that sounds like a slippy slope
RacheleD: I don't know much about native mobile development… but this SC is concerned with two dimensional scrolling, is that something native apps even do? or is it always constrained to available space?
JJ: mostly vertical or truncated on apps, but have seen it in webviews
julianmka: one of the biggest issues I run into with zoom and apps comes from developers not using scrolllable containers
julianmka: so at large sizes you end up losing a lot of content and functionality
julianmka: so content being cut off at the edge of the container etc
julianmka: and this is not just appearance of scrollbars, it's also that content isn't scrollable at all
JJ: yes very common issue
quintinb: I was thinking… maybe we should consider apps like Netflix that have scrolling in two direction but it is not necessarily two-dimensional in the sense of, like, maps… does this present the same issue?
quintinb: it is one dimension at the time
many apps have horizontal "carousels" or pager views
JJ: as far as I know for the SC this is allowed, does someone else want to add to this specific scrolling question?
RacheleD: yes I think carousels falls under the exception, because it is not scrolling in two directions
+1 clarity on scrolling *at the same time*
Joe_Humbert: question re web views… basically the only control a developer has over the webview, is if they allow it to scroll? they don't have control over the content
Joe_Humbert: if you have a table in a web view, they can't control how it flows as it is inside of the webview
Joe_Humbert: I liked your suggestion re high level requiring content should reflow when you enlarge things
Devs can use media queries and such to have web view content adapt to the container at least
the mobile app developers can use media queries julianmka? or is it the web developers need to do that
Mick: I'm still not sure how to test this, it seems to me like a very web specific criterion… I haven't come across apps that have a zoom button built in
Joe_Humbert It would be on whoever owns/maintains the web content being displayed in a web view
thankx julianmka
Learned something new today, thanks JJ :)
julianmka: thinking what we could do in terms of recommendations… maybe encourage web authors to make web content that renders better in web views?
JJ: was a bit similar to what we talked about with 1.4.4…
JJ: there is an interesting general question re web content in web views
1. Interpretation and Testing:
JJ: Raised questions about interpreting the reflow criterion for mobile native apps.
Joe_Humbert: Highlighted challenges in testing based on device dimensions, especially for older models like the original iPhone.
Double_a: Suggested considering layout changes in response to viewport resizing as "nice to have" guidance.
2. Device Specific Testing:
Carolina: Inquired about the necessity of testing on specific device models like iPhone 13 mini.
Joe_Humbert: Cautioned against requiring specific devices due to testing difficulties and variability in available devices.
3. Native App Scrolling Behavior:
RacheleD & julianmka: Discussed two-dimensional scrolling behavior in native apps and common issues such as content cut-off and non-scrollable containers.
quintinb: Raised a question about scrolling in apps like Netflix with horizontal carousels, seeking clarity on whether it aligns with the criterion.
4. Web Content in Web Views:
Joe_Humbert: Clarified the limitations of developers in controlling web content displayed in web views within mobile apps.
Mick: Expressed uncertainty about testing reflow in web views due to limited control over zoom functionality.
julianmka: Proposed encouraging web authors to create content that renders better in web views.
Discussion:
8 May 2024
[Source](https://www.w3.org/2024/05/08-matf-minutes.html#t01) ## 1.4.10 Reflow JJ: we discussed last week we would convert px, but there's still a question around how to set the viewport of an app to specific dimensions JJ: Joe_Humbert asked does mobile support up to 400%? could you elaborate? Joe_Humbert: the original iPhone technically doesn't meet the reqs, it exceeds the dimensions that this specifies Joe_Humbert: so I'm not sure if this could be tested Joe_Humbert: if we're testing to the size WCAG requires I don't think it'd be possible JJ: Mick says not sure if this is supported on native JJ: Carolina says don't think this applies to native [JJ reviews linked German testing standard]1. Interpretation and Testing:
2. Device Specific Testing:
3. Native App Scrolling Behavior:
4. Web Content in Web Views: